Why Do Men Look At Teen Nudity?

Yesterday, someone typed into a search engine the question, “Why do men look at teen nudity?”, and up popped this blog. I saw their question on my stats page and dismissed it: “Isn’t the answer obvious?”, I thought, “Men look at nude teens because youth is beautiful. Why would anyone need to ask?”

Three or four hours later I was back looking at the stats page again. Yet, this time the answer didn’t seem as obvious. So I googled the question to find out what others were saying. But the search only brought up one blog — this one. The remaining hits were porn sites, and not too helpful.

I then tried recalling studies done on why men look at teen nudity, but I couldn’t recall any. So, for some time now I’ve been sitting here wildly speculating. The answer once seemed obvious to me, but the more I look into it, the more I wonder.

At present, I suspect there are evolutionary reasons men look at teen nudity. For instance, I’ve read the prime reproductive years for women are their early 20s, and older teens aren’t too far from that. It seems reasonable to suppose that men who are especially attracted to women who are in their prime reproductive years will be more successful at reproducing than men who are not especially attracted to women who are in those years. So, natural selection would favor men who are especially attracted to women who are in their prime reproductive years. That would not only explain why men look at teen nudity, but why they look at teens (period/full stop).

Put a bit differently, men are attracted to youth — and find youth beautiful — because youth more or less corresponds with the prime reproductive years for women. Not a novel idea. I’ve heard it before. But at least the next time someone googles, “Why do men look at teen nudity”, they will now have something to start from.  Of course, it’s a pretty rough and incomplete start.

So, what other reasons are there?

UPDATE (August 21, 2011): This thread has largely turned into male bashing and/or female bashing. From here on out, I’m going to ban anyone bashing men and/or women, and delete their remarks. Just so you know.

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421 thoughts on “Why Do Men Look At Teen Nudity?

  1. Just a thought, so don’t quote me on it, but people tend to imprint aesthetic preferences at key points in life that follow them the rest of their days. One of the curious side effects is that indulging in things that remind of our first profound aesthetic experiences makes us feel comforted and sheltered – makes us feel “young” again. You’ve undoubtedly heard the term “comfort food” or noticed the tendency of people to have a special love for the rest of their life for the first music that they really listened to and understood as children. Perhaps a similar dynamic is at work with men and teen aged girls. The first sexual aesthetic was likely for most men an experience in their early-mid teens. So the ideal sexuality is that one. It makes them feel young and secure again by transporting them back to those powerful first memories.

    Or put another way, for many men, teen-aged girls might be a sort of “sexual comfort food.” :?D

    • Thank you for what you shared regarding men and teen porn. I have not been able to understand it on my own. I have tried. I’m very logical and know that biology has a great part in the thoughts and actions of “men.” I guess it’s hard to make sense with the fact that the man you share your life with loves “teen porn,” especially when you are not a teen.

      I’m in my mid-thirties and the gentlemen I live with is in his mid-sixties. I so suppose it makes me feel that I’m not sufficient when I see that what he loves to see on line is porn sites called: Seventeen, Barely Legal, etc. I sometimes feel uncomfortable when his teenage daughter’s friends come to the house. I wonder: “what is he thinking? Is he seeing them naked in his
      head?” I don’t think of it often, but when I do, it’s not a pleasant feeling. I do love who he is. I love that he is older and wise. And knowing that “teen-porn” is what he prefers to watch makes me feel as if I’m not good enough, I’m simply not enough for him. I know it shows my insecurities, but I at times can’t have my logical mind take over. Even though I so wish it did in moments when I feel like the above. And so my emotional mind sets the stage.

      Thank you so very much for what you shared.

      Leelee

  2. I like your idea, Brendan. It’s actually almost exactly what I was coming over here to write! So given that my thoughts to the first question have already been included, I’ll further the discussion with this:

    When I (a woman) was 19 – 22 years old or so, I worried that I would continue to be attracted to younger looking men. I worried that I would look at my as-yet-unborn-sons’ friends and find them sexually attractive. While I have not had sons, and so will not have that problem, I have found to my delight that my interest in men has aged with me. When I look at teenage boys now, I am no more attracted to them than I am to a child.

    I wonder if women are less sexually attracted to teenage boys than men are sexually attracted to teenage girls? And if they are, then why?

  3. Good question Karen Rayne. I am going out on a limb here to express an opinion based on conjecture more than fact. Women are less sexually attracted to very young men because for some reason our sexual satisfaction seems closely bound to social status and power. I think women find power and status in a man sexy and are willing to let the esthetic standard slip in exchange for greater status. So has been my observation. Very young men, while delightful to look at come a cropper in the status department. Beutiful but unintelligent young men and boys, easy on the eyes, excite me sexually as much as a store manikin does – not at all – because it is the interior life of a man playing out on his surface that I find attractive, exciting and satisfactory for the long-term. G

    • i think its simple 18 they dont have flaws that come with age like baby weight stretch marks loose skin cellulite might not be good for relationship but sex deff and some guys are morew attracted to older women cause they have higher sex drives i dont know the age on that

  4. @ Brendan: That’s a very interesting perspective, Brendan — one that I suspect plays into it with at least some people.

    @ Karen: I find I take pleasure in how adolescent girls look, and I am to some extent sexually attracted to them, but I am put off by their kind of sexuality. For instance, their sexual insecurities, so typical of adolescence, are devastating turn offs.

    Over the years, a half dozen of my young friends have at one time or another formed an interest in me. But I’ve not taken any one of them up on it. What sexual attraction I have towards them always seems to get run over by an aversion to dealing with their sexuality.

    The other factor that seems to enter into it for me is my reluctance to get involved with someone who doesn’t really understand me — and there are things about people my age that it would be cruel to expect an adolescent to understand, or to deal with.

    I do love looking at the kids, though.

    @ Suburbanlife: Thank you for those insights! Although I’m celibate, I at times feel strongly attracted to someone. It seems in each case that’s been to a middle aged woman. And I’m pretty sure by now that what has turned me on is their sexual confidence. So, like you G, I find youth easy on the eyes, but no where near as sexually attractive as older people.

  5. I agree with Suburban to a large extent. It seems logical that the male species want to primarily spread their seeds and the female wants to preserve them once they flower.

  6. Let’s face facts: firm-breasted, fresh-skinned and unblemished youth is a hell of a lot more attractive than skin that looks like a deflated lizard, with liver spots the size of dimes and boobs that need a crane to lift them off the belt line. It takes a special kind of person to see the beauty in all that, and most of us ain’t that special.

    I have to admit my own shallowness here. When it comes to oogling nakie people, young and virile beats old and saggy. And I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to breed, so I can’t say I’m in it for the stud value. Not consciously, anyway. What my damned genes get up to when I’m not watching is an open question. ;-D

  7. @ Nita: Well said! I think there’s a lot of truth in that generalization. It fits well, for instance, with what I’ve heard from some biologists.

    @ Dana: Thank you for such an interesting comment! I would have completely agreed with you fifteen or twenty years ago, so I can relate to what you’re saying. It seems to me, however, that our sexuality tends to change somewhat with age. What we are looking for when we are 20 or 30 years old is not necessarily what turns us on at 40 or 50 years old. At least, that’s been my experience.

  8. Ah not the youtfullness but youths innocence.

    “There is no aphrodisiac like innocence”.

    Someone said… he could be wrong though.

  9. Ah, last night I was reminded quite firmly that age is all relative. So here’s a question for everyone here: what on earth do you mean by “youth”?

    I’m a good bit younger than most of my friends (all the parents of my daughters’ friends). I’m 28 – and my idea of youth is just different from theirs. I think of anyone around 21 or 22 or younger to be “young.” And I find that the people (men and women) who I find attractive are within about 5 years of my age, plus or minus. There are, of course, outliers – but they tend to be older rather than younger.

    But many of my friends (all parents of my daughter’s friends) consider me “young” as in the phrase “too young for me to be romantically involved with, were I looking for a relationship with a woman.”

    And I want to be clear that we’re talking about age-ist expectations here – an average that has little to do directly with each individual we meet.

    What do each of you mean when you say “youth” or “young”?

    • Young is relative to the age of the observer.

      I’m 63, so young to me would be under 50 I suppose, though I’m having difficulty seperating attractive from young. I’ll always admire beauty no matter what age it comes in. When I say that, I’m talking about the superficial attractiveness.

      Personally, I’d have great difficulty coping with a teen, or even a person under say 35, because intellectually, maturity wise, we’d have very little in common.

      I do think there are far too many insecure people on this planet which is why so many seem to have a problem with their husbands looking at naked pictures on their computers.

      There isn’t a man alive who will not be attracted to the image of a naked female. Any man who says that’s not true is a liar.

      When it comes to underage, it’s been my experience the majority of men may look, but they also know not to touch.

      It’s the image of beauty, perfection, which attracts a glance, it’s not at all a sexual thing when an attractive child gets a mans attention.

      Seriously, it’s about time everyone settled down and stopped being so paranoid. I get the impression most women have driven their men to the computer, and the more they make a fuss about it, the more men will want to sit at their computers.

      Psychology is required here. Instead of handing your husbands the weapon of knowing it upsets you to see him looking at naked images on his computer, why not join him and pretend you like it as well. Once that fruit is no longer forbidden, he’ll soon lose interest, and you’ll have no reason to be concerned.

      Equally, whilst it’s only a small part of the relationship, women do need to be a lot more involved sexually. Yes I know you’re tired after holding down a full time job, taking care of children and all that goes with running a home, I know I’m being very unfair, very sexist, but seriously, men want their partner to indulge in sexual activities, if that doesn’t happen, naturally, they’ll look for an alternative way of amusing themselves sexually.

      That having been said, I think women should consider themselves lucky all their husbands are doing is looking at pictures on line, surely that has to be better than him having an affair? OR even worse, wanting you to engage in more regular sex, lol.

      Far too many men are relieving themselves on line, simply because of womens naivity regarding men and their sexual appetites. Those appetites are driven by the belief sex isn’t available, or the man respecting you too much to dare ask you to engage in whatever his fantasies may be.

      It’s a difficult road to walk, and it hasn’t been helped in any way by the insane preachings of many religious groups who seem hell bent on demonising any other kind of sexual activety either prior to marriage or especially involving anything more than missionary.

  10. @ Purnima: Nice to see you again! I myself love experience in a woman. But maybe that’s just me.

    @ Karen: I tend to think of anyone younger than 35 or so to be on the youthful side of things. As for whether someone is too young for me to be romantically involved with — that could be a different matter. I don’t really know. I’m celibate, so I would need to consult my heart and mind about that.

  11. Oh, dear. And here I was hoping you’d called me out for a shallow, crass, materialistic so-and-so, and all I get is an excellent point! Argh!

    I’m caught out. I’m just a 30-something gal who’s probably not out of the “ooo, firm young flesh” stage yet. Although, I do find Ian McKellan dead sexy, mind. But when I read this, I was thinking of what my guy friends have said about the younguns (we’ve all had some really bad moments as the child stars of Harry Potter have grown and we’ve had to wonder if we were becoming pedophiles, lol!), and yup – they’re all in their 20s or 30s.

    Then again, I know a lot of dirty old men who love looking at the girls. They don’t seem to have changed their appreciation of female beauty so much as added another category.

    For raw sexual attraction, for me, young trumps old every time. But in certain older folk, there’s a mysterious something that makes them magnetically attractive, that doesn’t strike ye olde (fine, fine, young) libido like a punch to the gut, but sneaks up and grabs its attention by other means. I suppose that second kind of attraction may grow as I age. Or not. Maybe I’ll be one of those old ladies on the beach making the cabana boys desperately uncomfortable with her off-color jokes and bottom pinching. ;-)

  12. I don’t agree with a biological determinism views at all. I think they are lame excuses. Men cheat because their genes are trying to reporduce themselves through other women? BS. Men have sex with many women because they want to have a good time. Your genes don’t think.

    We all have minds, and we make choices. I think it’s really sad try to deny our locus of control. Things you are attracted to aren’t always good for you. If they were then we’d all be enlightened all ready. We would all be happy and lack for nothing.

    People look at teen girls because they are deluded. They think it’s going to be a good time, but then they get dumped or fired or arrested. Now what? More pain.

  13. Hi Leroy! Welcome to the blog! :)

    I’m afraid I cannot agree with you about the role of genes. It seems to me any species that was not somehow motivated to pass on its genes would have gone extinct long ago. I reckon we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one.

  14. I must admit I’m really disturbed that you guys so blatantly admit to being attracted to teen girls. And that makes me so hideously old- at 22. Why bother continuing in a relationship when the older I get, the less attractive I will be? I feel as if I should expect my man (5 years my senior) will be attracted to all of the 15/16/17/18/19 year old girls running around after reading about this stuff. I feel as if I can’t compare, nor compete. What if we were still together when I was 30… should I be worried the high schoolers will be that much more attractive and will be any man’s fantasy? Grrr. I’m not trying to insult anyone. But this hits upon my insecurities and makes me feel worthless in all the face of these teenage girls! They are kids for christ’s sake. For the record, I find older men attractive, not boys. Men in their mid to late 20’s and 30’s.

  15. Hi Melanie! Welcome to the blog! :)

    I’m afraid I can’t agree with your assumption that the older a woman gets the less attractive she gets. There are many things that make a person attractive. Younger women tend to have some things in their favor — such as looks — but older women tend to have other things in their favor — such as confidence. It does not distract from the attractiveness of older women to recognize that their younger sisters can be attractive too.

  16. Hi- your blog is a really cool & interesting one so I bookmarked it

    I didn’t mean that I feel that older women look unattractive, but I just get the feeling from many men that they prefer younger girls’ looks to older women anyday. For example, I see around me how like a 30 year old man, would rather be with an 18 year old as opposed to a 25-30 year old woman. I just don’t get that.. I don’t want to be 30/40 and only have confidence going for me. I want to be 30/40 and have grown men say “she’s hot” rather than the neighbor’s teen daughter. I know that looks are not everything and personality counts. I don’t mean to come off as shallow in any way. It’s just that, I wish 30/40 and older women would be considered just as hot and sexy for their looks as 16 year olds! I just don’t want to be an old married wife one day with a husband whose eyes linger on his friends teen daughters. I live in a small rural county where a lot of adult/teen relationships go on and I totally disagree with it. My friends and I feel like it diminishes our self-worth sometimes. I just want men to realize that teens are not always the prime physical ideal and hope they find their older wives just as physically and sexually attractive.

    I know I sound completely insecure, so be it, but I just hope that not every man finds teens attractive. My boyfriend swears that he doesn’t but everytime I read stuff like that I feel suspicious. Sorry to go on and on and on like this though, about a biological thing I can’t change. :-)

  17. Hi Melanie! Thanks for bookmarking the blog!

    I think I see what you’re saying now. I tend to give your boyfriend some creditability because I don’t think every man feels women much younger than him are sexually attractive. Beautiful, maybe, but that’s not quite the same thing as sexually attractive.

    Dr. Theresa Crenshaw, who is an author and sex therapist, asserts that it is especially true of older men. A 35 year old man might find a 20 year old woman more attractive than a 35 year old woman. But a 50 year old man is much less likely to find a 20 year old woman more attractive than a 50 year old woman.

    I think Dr. Crenshaw is substantially right. I once hung around dozens of people in their teens and early twenties when I was in my 40s. Those younger women were less likely to turn me on than were women closer to my own age. And that was the case despite several of the younger women were physically gorgeous.

    I was making an effort to be celibate at the time and so I was acutely aware of how much easier it was for me to be comfortably celibate with women much younger than me than it was to be comfortably celibate with women close to my own age. In the first years after I decided to become celibate, I backslid a few times — but always with women close to my age. Never with any of the much younger women I knew at the time — they were tempting but not tempting enough. (I would never say such things to their faces, though — I want to survive to a ripe old age. :D )

    For those and other reasons, Melanie, I think there are at least some men out there more attracted to women their own age than to women much younger than them.

  18. Well, I am attracted to women 18-24 and really after that I have a hard time being attracted to them. I do not have kids and am 28. Alot of people say I have a penchant for younger women, but in reality I cannot find myself attracted to women older than about 24 or 25. The only problem seems to be reverse agism where these women 18-21 will suddenly lose interest when they know I am 28, I guess I look younger too. It kind of sucks, I have on more than one occasion lied about my age because of it. I don’t feel good about it, but I feel it is something that has to be done sometimes.

  19. Sorry I’m a bit late to the party, but the question is a bit flawed.

    It’s not just teens.

    Why do men look at (xxxxx) nudity? Where xxxxx can and will be: teen, adult, 18+, -18, 20’s 30’s , 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, (dare I go to 70?), grama, grandpa, skinny, fat, men, women , girls, boys, animals, short, tall, freaky, nice, petite, plus, normal, average, wierd, alien…….

    You can also replace men with women in the question.

  20. You’re only fashionably late to the party, Jeff! Thanks for dropping in!

    You offer an interesting perspective, but it’s not one that I happen to entirely share. For one thing, I think men are more visually oriented than women in this particular matter. Also, I think there’s a genuine question of why at least some men are attracted to the looks of women far younger than themselves.

  21. As a 39 year old man married to a 23 year old woman, I was attracted to her because the local singles scene is horrible. I wouldn’t have dated most women her age (she was legal at the time, btw). Even though I look really young, it still seems icky to hit on women young enough to be my daughter. But she asked me, and I’m only human. :D

  22. There are many good points here, but I especially appreciate Brendan’s, which I have always felt was a factor but not seen written down before. I too believe there is a powerful and lasting association with one’s first or most striking sexual and emotional experiences, and this explains why most pedophiles were subjected to pedophilia themselves as children. In later life it becomes a fantasy that sticks and colors both desires and perceptions, in part by guiding experiences (self-reinforcing).

    I think teen nudity is attractive to men for all of the reasons in the comments above, and the relative mix of them differs from person to person and drives preferences and behaviors. I also think there is a cultural expectation, clearly expressed in the porn industry, that men will prefer to see nude teens. Interestingly, the porn industry seems to have broadened to include all ages and much more variety over the past couple of decades, possibly reflecting a number of changes in society including the aging of the “boomers”, the advancement of women, etc.

    Personally, I have always been most attracted to mature, self-possessed, intelligent women. That doesn’t mean I don’t find nude teens interesting to look at, but I understand the reality – the whole person is much different than the image. In fact, I would contend that most men can NOT completely control their eyes, whether it is looking at an attractive woman or an attractive car … but they get in trouble with their wives for looking at an attractive woman at the wrong time. Instinct is undeniably powerful.
    Thanks to Paul and all for a very interesting and thoughtful item. – Tim

  23. when i was a teenager in the 90′,s the role models were linda evangelista, christy turlington, naomi campbell the beauties and they were all around 20 something when really popular and all around a size 6, without implants. i think it;’s marketing, porn and media with reality tv. now it’s all about barely legal and size zero with huge implants. also the models of the 90’s didn’t have to have huge breasts to be on the cover. they were and are still simply beautiful women. maybe men weren;t so intimidated, maybe the 90’s generation had a bit more standards and integrity as to what was right, wrong and crossing the line.. the only allure to a 15 year old is her body, she is easily impressed by things adults have, easily manipulated…idk, i don’t understand why a man would want to be with a child instead of a woman. i guess it makes them feel like a “big” man. less experienced girl, or something like that. good question though. perhaps bc it’s taboo and popular all at the same time. we’ve been using womens bodies to sell products for a long time. it’s odd though bc i believe men still rule the fashion industry as far as designers, so they are the ones handing out the role models. calvin klein got in some trouble a couple of years ago for crossing the line…

  24. Hi Madeau! Welcome to the blog!

    I don’t think it’s stupid to look at beauty, do you?

    I think it’s stupid to pine for something you can’t have. But that strikes me as quite different than looking at a beautiful young woman.

  25. Hi, D! Welcome to the blog! :)

    If I had my way — that is, if my personal tastes were by some miracle the social norm — then society would not make so much of 15 year olds. I don’t mean society would disparage 15 year olds. Just that society would not hold 15 year olds up as its ideal woman.

  26. The blossom is most beautiful when first it blooms, not when it starts to whither.

    The thing is, the blossom first blooms long before anyone thinks it does in this society. Girls hit puberty at what, 10 years old? For most of history, young teens were made into wives so they could start bearing children as soon as possible. Our culture has managed to make children think they’re still children until they’re 18. We’ve created this awkward stage where kids are sort of still kids, but aren’t really. In our society, we have to frantically try to keep kids from having sex from the time they’re physically ready for it until the time they’re mentally ready for it. In essence, we’ve once again diverged from our own biology.

    Why do men look at teen nudity? Because teenage girls are the prime examples of fertility. That’s history talking. Men look because of teenage girls’ playful bubbliness. Because of the youthful joy in their eyes. Because of their lust for adventure. Also, because teenage girls are out of their reach. Because our society says it’s wrong for old men to like young women. Because teenage girls are becoming aware of their sexuality and tease men in any way they can. Because they dress to show off their bodies. Men look at teen nudity because despite all the fear and taboo about pedophilia, teenage girls are hot.

  27. Kyle,

    You seem to be missing the point. There is a reason for the fear and taboo about pedophilia. It’s that humans are still children even at age 18. Teens’ brains have not fully developed yet. Their cortexes are still incomplete. They do not have the judgement or developed ego to keep themselves safe and sane. They can be traumatized by a pedofile who choses to act on his desires. They deserve the protection of adults who don’t intend to use them for personal satisfaction without regard to their wellbeing. Please rethink the consequences of pedophilia.

  28. @Kyle: Hi, and welcome to the blog!

    I think these things might be matters of taste. For instance: It is difficult for me to imagine a girl of, say, 16 being more sexually attractive than a woman twice her age. It’s true the 16 year old most likely has smoother skin and a taunter body, but the 32 year old most likely possesses an openness, confidence, and wisdom that the 16 year old cannot compete with. Perhaps whether one is more attracted to one or the other depends on one’s priorities?

    Having said all that, I would like to add that I don’t equate sexual maturity with either physical, intellectual, or emotional maturity. So far as I know, a girl of 16 is still an adolescent, and usually pretty far from being an adult, despite that she can reproduce. That’s to say, I think adolescence is actually a biological stage, and not a social construct.

    @ Maria: Welcome to the blog!

    I agree that it is both wise and necessary for society to do what it can to protect young people from exploitative relationships. According to at least one study, for instance, girls of 13 or so are far more likely to get pregnant if their boyfriends are 21 or 22, than if their boyfriends are 14 or even 15.

  29. What an interesting and well-written blog! (I stumbled here through blognosh.) I think this might be one of the most civil and thoughtful (while also provocative) discussions I’ve ever seen in a comments section.

    So, when I read this post, it rang a porn bell for me. That is, I thought about all the porn popping up in my porn searches that I’ve avoided on account of its blatantly underage creepiness. I envisioned grown men ogling the 14-18 age set –the range I normally classify as teenagers, because they live with their parents and go to high school and are adolescents. Past that is for me, a special “late teen” subcategory, and below it is pre-teen — or so goes my definition.

    So, I was surprised to find so many comments in reference to “youth” in general, and on why lots of older fellows like to look at twenty-somethings (I don’t mean that commenters were just talking about 20-somethings, just that the the 20-somethings were often bracketed into the same category as the teenagers). To me, the smooth-skinned, perky 18-24 age set of women is miles different, not only sexually, emotionally, and intellectually, but also phsysically, from teenagers who are minors. I think of minors as people who are not yet fully physically developed. In my opinion, the attraction toward this set of teenagers is specific to our perception of their undeveloped-ness, and cannot be explained simply by claims of admiration for tautness and suppleness and absence of wrinkles and liver spots. You can find all that in a 20-year-old, and lots of 28-year-olds, and many 35-year-olds.

    A guy who seeks out porn in which the stars are 15, 16, or even “barely legal” isn’t just looking for smooth skin. I think it has to do with power and innocence, with contrasting his experience with her inexperience, and with lots of other things, perhaps including a sheerly aesthetic preference, but it’s not just about perfect skin or athleticism or prettiness. (Actually, it’s definitely not about athleticism. Come to think of it, contrast our ideas about the athleticism associated with youth with our ideas about the innocence associated with the aesthetic qualities of the bodies of teenage girls. Athleticism in youth is, to me, an 18-26 thing, not a definition of the body of a 15-year-old girl. 15-year-old girls are weak and soft compared with some young, 23-year-old woman who happens to be all fit and muscle-bound.)

    I keep thinking that up until adolescence ends, the musculature of the body is not fully developed and so teenage girls have a soft look to them, which is young in the sense of childishness, and not just prettiness. The body hasn’t yet filled out, the curves aren’t fully developed, the face hasn’t even filled out. They kind of look like adults, but they totally also look like children. The question is an interesting one, of what men (men specifically, not just women, too) sometimes find sexually attractive in that aesthetic aspect of childishness that teenagers have. I realize that not all teenagers look “not fully developed,” but there is a whole section of the porn industry that looks for teenagers who do kind of look like kids, and maybe for some men it’s acceptable because they aren’t really kids, they’re in between.

    I’m attracted to women, and I’m 22, and I occasionally find a teenager attractive, but I tend to feel awfully dirty about it when that happens because I can see that aspect of childishness in the way she looks. Maybe I’m more likely to feel bad about it because I’m a woman and so I’ve been conditioned in many ways to be attracted to people with experience. . .obviously that conditioning doesn’t guarantee that I will always be attracted to people older than me, but maybe it causes me to feel embarrassed when I see beauty in someone who’s younger.

    By the way, I think the question of older men being attracted to 20-somethings is thought-provoking, too, and I think lots of the other commenters have said interesting things about it, but I just wanted to bring up my ideas about there being a distinction between someone being youthful (and containing all the ideals of perfection our society binds to youthfulness) and someone looking like they have a touch of “child” in their face and body.

  30. Gues il bump the blog :)

    I just found this today, and read through it. Honestly i don’t even remember what i was searching to come across this i gues its because i spent too much reading this whole page. I find all of you peoples comments interesting so i thought i would put in my opinions and have some questions of my own. Im sorry for any misspelling or bad grammer im 17 but i know somethings.
    First my opinion on why older men find younger women attractive is because the body is stil fresh and immature. Thats not how i see it though, i’d rather look at women in the ages of 20-28, just the ones i’v seen in those ages i find attractive, and i’d rather have converstaions with women 25-40 maby its because their vocabulary contains more words than “OMG, NO!?” and so on. Now im not sure where im going with this but some men (not me) also tend to look at porn with older men and young women, and i think the reason of that is because they wan’t to know whats going on in those two heads while thats going on. I doubt anyone here will honestly say they have never watched porn, if they do then im sorry. I’d rather watch it if it has women older than me, because it gets me thinking of how much better i would feel if an older girl liked me. I’m not saying i wouldn’t look at a teen girl because they do have nice bodies but to me immatureness is a bad thing and only with an older person is where you get enjoyment out of it. I also don’t think all men look at teen nudity, its just those with unsuccesful marriages, or ones feeling lonely. Reason is because probebly when they were teens their life was going good, and they want to go back to that age again. People have different opinions in how girls look, like my friend for example bragged about his girlfriend and how good looking she was, when i saw her their was nothing beutiful about her but i wasn’t going to tell him that but im just thinking hes going to be one of the people with a succesful marriage, because he sees something in women that most men don’t see. I don’t know if this has anything to do with the topic but i stil love watching cartoons, all my friends love watching action movies i’d rather just sit and watch animations like wall-E for instance, great movie and other cartoons that were at their best in the late 90s and 200-2003 but the reason i watch them is i hate to see my self getting older, maby that has something to do with men liking younger girls.

  31. From my experience Brenden is bang on…my fondest memories are of sexual awakening and the emotions surrounding them…

  32. @Andrea: Hi, and welcome to the blog! :)

    I think you’ve made a very important distinction between girls in their early and mid teens and women in their late teens and early twenties. That happens not to be a distinction I was myself making — an oversight on my part.

    Very interesting comments. Thank you!

    @ Mike: Hi and welcome! :)

    You reminded me of how when I was much younger — around your age — I was attracted to older women, too.

    @ Stu: I somewhat envy your and Brendan’s ability to recall your sexual awakenings. At 51, it gets harder and harder to remember those things in any detail, or with any accuracy.

  33. Inclinations differ from actions. There was a time when we told children that it was bad of them to feel angry. It was a great step forward to tell them that such feelings were natural but they must not act on them by hitting people.

    As I see it, evolution has equipped most men to find females of our species sexually attractive when they look sexually mature, which as Kyle said isn’t uncommon at age 10 these days. The point American society has not yet reached is telling these men that while they must not act on these feelings, it is natural to have them. There is one supreme reason why older men must not act on such attractions: it can be extraordinarily harmful to the girls involved, even if they don’t think so at the time. We must do our utmost to avoid something as simple as looking too much.

    Most of us men naturally develop and use other criteria to decide which women we actually want to be involved with, which includes age-appropriateness. It doesn’t make the gut-level feeling of attraction to the girls go away, however.

    I have far more to say on the subject. What I would love to do is convince Maria (and eventually, everyone of similar views) to accept the inclinations along with condemning the behavior.

  34. I think most of you are just over over looking the obvious. Teen girls are just hot. Call me a perv if you like. However think about it. Most teen girls have a great body figure, that really, they don’t have to do much to keep. As girls/guys age, it becomes much harder to keep the “handles” from forming.

    Its almost the new car analogy. The new car has the new smell, fresh lines, and shiny paint. There is no maintenance involved to keep it nice at first.

    Teen girls are in great shape (most anyways). Skin is tight, breasts are usually firm, and they tend to have a tight butt. Plus, anymore, girls that age SHOW OFF the goods as much as possible. If you go to a mall and are able to go for more than 5 minutes without seeing a thong sticking out of some teens shorts/pants …well school must still be in session.

    Does this mean that older women are not attractive/sexy? NO, they are. However if you see three women walking down a hallway and they are ages 18, 25, and 35…you will find that the younger they are, the more sexy the outfit they will wear to draw attention to them. The 35 year old, while most likely sexy will be wearing more casual clothing that is more age appropriate.

    So why do men look at teen porn? Because teen girls are in the prime of their lives, and yes they also seem to convey incense.

    It should also be noted that a lot of guys are attracted to virgins, and teens are a more likely source of virgins. As the age goes up, the chances of finding a virgin goes down.

    Just my observations.

  35. Personally I think society has a huge part to play on this matter. Let me give you an example. In the 1970’s we had shows like All in the Family and Adam 12. In the 1980’s it was Family Ties and Hill Street Blues. 1990’s it was Charmed and the beginning of Reality TV. Now look at TV today.. People in the 1950s and 1960s did not talk about the thing we talk about today. They did not see the things we see today.
    Porn is so easy to access on the internet that we have become desensitised to it. Just like the amount of violence.
    Dont get me wrong I understand why things have changed. A large part of that is for the monitary gains. Would you buy perfume from a commercial showing a woman in her 50s or from a woman in her late teens who looks smooth and beautiful.
    Let me ask you this. Why is it we are seeing more and more woman having sex with underage boys?
    Youth makes us feel young. Gives us the impression we can do the things we used to do when we were that young.
    Try this as well, Do you think we would have this problem if we lived in a society that had no clothes?
    I’m glad i found this site and hope you are still talking about this.
    I hope I did not offend anyone here. Im in my forties personally and do like to look at porn. I think we all look at porn in one way or another.

  36. Hey im 18 and i hate being clased as a women cause i think of a woman as 30s 40s nd above its mad how a 17 is a girl but 18 is suddenly a woman. Anyway i seen this question and found it funny maybe i can offer my view.
    I was in the pub with my mam last night and men in there 30s were lukin at me which i can deal wit bt any older and i hate it, esspecially because i look yunger and its pervy anyway this 50 sumthn rod stewart wannabe came and kised my cheek and then pretended that he thought i was someone else which was crap cause he was wachn me allnyt! I think he was horny and attracted to me cause i am pretty and youthful looking but also cause a lot of the older women were with men or they were too sophisticated looking which skares men off! I think men just fancy young girls its like when uv had a dog for 5 yrs its cute n all but then a new puppy comes along there always guna be cuter and more desired just deal with it! And women stop being jealous of teens cause remember you were a teen once!

  37. @ Scott:
    “Why is it we are seeing more and more woman having sex with underage boys?”

    Because it’s being reported more. It always went on; we just didn’t hear about it on the news.

    @ Jen:
    “its like when uv had a dog for 5 yrs its cute n all”

    No, we can’t dance together. No, we can’t talk at all. (Steely Dan, “Hey, Nineteen)

    Sure, kittens are cute – but give me a cat who knows who she is and isn’t shy about asserting herself, any day.

    – M.

  38. women in their teens and even early 20’s have not mentally developed yet. The brain inside their head is still child like. It doesnt matter which one has matured enough for you to talk to. No matter what they say they have been through. A woman matures at age 25 and a man is said to age at 37. To think human beings will take even longer to realize this is sad. Girls doing performing in pornographpic acts of sexuality in their adolescence live lives of regret or no return. They are young and childlike. 30 year old men used to marry 13 and 14 year olds. In our society we are beyond this. There is a time when a older human could realize this is inappropriate and harmful. A man who desires to see flesh who’s mind hasn’t developed enough to think is considered a pervert. So everyone that has written thus far has perplexed me that males and females have not culturally evolved to realize this is an excuse. Turn into a human focused on hobbies, friends, family and making a successful living. Realize who you are and what you are doing. Life is a beautiful thibg at all ages and a woman is sexy at all ages. I am 25 and feel confident about my future 40’s. Good luck!

  39. I still say that society has a part to do with this. If people did not offer teen nudity out there then people (men and women) would not try to find it.
    Meowlin; If this has been going on like you say it has, then why is it women dont receive the same sentence as men when they are caught.
    Amber; You give an excuse for women under 25 and men under 37 to do what they want because they are still child like. Sorry cant agree with you on that.

  40. hello. im a 14 year old girl. i can assure you though that im not the typical ” child”. the ” under-developed, mentally immature, and highly incapable” human being that some of you are making it out that most teenagers are. yes, some teenagers are what you would call a late bloomer. i find it rare though. i am in high school naturally and have been around teens like myself. i would say almost every ” child” attending my high school do not resemble a kid. id say almost every girl is physically developed. they are menstruating and their bodily forms reflect a young woman rather then a child.
    in my opinion a ” kid” so to speak is a human being in the early developmental stages of life where they haven reached puberty or have just started puberty.
    a ” girl” in my definition is a female whose sexual organs have not fully matured. in my opinion, when a girl begins menarche she converts from a girl to a young woman. for, she can reproduce.
    sure, most of the ” youth folk” out there may lack emotional maturity but that goes for the older crowd too. my father, whom is 42, still acts like a child. he makes poor decisions and is just overall very immature. technically; however, he is an ” adult”. why is he anymore of an adult then a mature, physically and emotionally developed young man in his teens or early 20’s? is this because he has led a longer life? experienced a few more years. so that makes him more intelligent and capable?
    sorry, but that theory and way of thinking just strikes me as inane and ridiculous. i know what im going on about is completely off topic but i just couldnt hold my feelings and strong opinions back. to be completely honest, this entire topic and what a lot of people wrote completely offended me. i am a young woman in my teens. i do not want to be discriminated and judged just because i lack what the older folk do in age. that is unfair.
    i am not underdeveloped, i do not have the body of a child, nor do i have the mind of a child. i am completely aware of my surroundings, completely capable of making decisions, and as far as i am concerned am relatively intelligent. i am not any dumber then the average 40 something year old. id like to be taken seriously. id like to have a say in the world of politics and voice my opinion freely. and yes, i am young so naturally i am youthful, fresh, almost new in a way. cleansed. free of old age and wear and tear. i should not automatically be labeled as ” immature though, and incapable” or even a ” child” i am a young woman who would love to be treated like one instead of a child.

    oh yes and AMBER, guess what, sure i may be 14, but my mind has definitely developed enough to be able to think. it is functioning properly and efficiently last time i checked. for you to say something like that offends me greatly. in fact, that is the biggest insult to me. \

    biologically, i am a young woman at her sexual prime. i can reproduce and follow my duties of bringing another life into this world. i may be young, but i am not, by ANY circumstances, foolish, immature, unintelligent, vulnerble, inexperienced, or underdeveloped.

  41. Dear Alicia,

    Thank you for the recent comment you left on my blog. You had much to say of importance to me and I haven’t digested it fully yet, but I just wanted to drop you a quick note apologizing for any offense I might have unintentionally caused you by referring to young women as “kids”. At 50, my current age, a kid is to me a term of endearment I use in reference to my friends who are younger than me. I do not mean it to be belittling. But I will certainly consider using a different term from now on because — as you’ve shown — it can be mistaken for belittling.

  42. I classify a young girl from 18 to 24. There’s a difference between a young girl and a young woman.
    Young girls tend to not think things through. of the long term consequences.
    Lacking emotional maturity and common sense. emphasizing on the present fads, rather than the present.
    following your heart or listening to your head is downright stupid.
    Listen to your conscience.
    There’s right and wrong, no such thing as ,oral relativity.
    Rather than thinking about sex and the whole empowerment routine or whichever BS crap nowadays, youths should enjoy life while they’re still young. (children shouldn’t be robbed of their childhood.)
    forget about sex.
    If there’s any blame to be made, its Hollywood, feminists and pseudo experts, who think they know what they’re doing.
    Face it, feminists hates the female species more so, than anything. making total domination second and complete elimination of the males third on their list
    The female species had taken for granted what others in different parts of the world never experienced, freedom and human dignity.
    Women in other parts of the world are considered as property and doormats. In worse case, like toilet paper after wiping one’s rear end after doing the deed, being flushed down the drain.
    Society had already degenerated, and going downhill.
    being aboriginal, before my pappy was born, in the old days, young girls were arranged to be married to another. life was harder for women in general.
    Men were expected to be in their roles, but then again we let down the creator.
    philosophical stand point
    in loose translation humanity screwed up big time.
    women are not supposed to act like animals.
    Likewise as men are not supposed to act like animals.

  43. There’s right and wrong, no such thing as moral relativity.
    sorry about the typo above.

    Oh yeah, there are old dogs who lack manners.

  44. hmm, interesting topic. i think i may have something for the conversation. i decided to get married when i was 19. my husband was 36 at the time. i think youth can be attractive for more reasons than appearence. its an age when you have boundless energy and enthusiasm for life. the years tend to calm a person down a bit. still enjoy life but just do so at a calmer pace. i think its the enthusiasm that men, and women for that matter find attractive in a younger partner of the opposite sex. my husband had a tendancy to seek out older women for lovers b4 the two of us became an item. sometimes just a couple years older than himself , sometime quite a bit older. i think he enjoyed being the overexitable youth in the relationship, hes also comented that older women are strong and confedent, where as alot of young women can be needy and insecure.
    anyway you look at it, women are attractive, weather it be the young bubbly women, or the older woman with a sort of sexual magnetism. regaurdless of what attracts someone into a relationship, what will keep 2 people together and attracted to oneanother is being about the same things. the big issues. religion, polatics, do u want children.. how will u raise them? its less about looking inward at each other, and more about if you can look outward in one direction together. i immagine my husband will allways look at women, younger and older. i am not blind to other men, there are plenty to see. the only morality issue i see here is if a person knows a child and watches as she grows into a teen. then becomes sexual twards that girl. he should still veiw her as a child. knowing someone as a child tends to make us veiw that person as a child long after their bodies have grown to apear adult. if one of my friends began showing sexual intrest in my daughter once she had reached her teens, i would likely beat the man with a baseball bat. even though alot of girls look grown up in their teens, many have still more child in them than adult. 18 is leagle, but in most cases its still a grey area. there are men out there fooling around with 12 yr old girls because they look so very much more adult now than ever before. 12 yr old girls walking around with double D cups now days. check the I.D.s guys, looks be damned ,the girls are still 12 yr old girls. and even though she may look 20 to you, its still makes you a child molester if you,… well u know. so there is a moral issue i supose it lies with the overlap of the childhood yrs and the physical apearence of sexual maturity. as to what B says above,.. if we were lions on the savana, the old saying would be accurate”old enough to bleed, old enough to breed”. but we are not animals , and we need to use better judgement in general as a society concearning sex. feminism has been set back 50 yrs. our oversexualised media is to blame, feminism however rough some of its loyal followers may be, is a concept with the cause of letting women be people and not forced to be objects. women were objectified as house keepers and baby makers, now women are sexual displays and nothing more. if we believe differently, it will become different. this dribble about a woman thinking she will get less attractive just because her number increases, just how male supremasists would love u to feel. anything that breaks women apart as a group. racial issues are a culpret in keeping women divided and weak aswel but thats another blog entirely. thanks 4 the rant, till next time.

  45. i recently discovered that my boyfriend is looking at porn quite frequently. he forked out money for a website which features teens all of which surprised me since he has not so much money on account of just becoming a high school teacher. (used to teach college) I look at porn myself occasionally and we’ve talked about the fact that we both do this. but somehow coming upon (not snooping, but seeing it on the history of the computer) at this time and the fact that it’s teens and that he’s been so swamped with the new job we barely have time together, all makes me feel uncomfortable. I know intellectually it may make no sense, but i feel sick about it. The teen part, i also intuitively understand and i think one thing that nobody mentioned is the concept of taboo, which i think is a whole other layer of why it’s attractive. But because he is just starting as a teacher, and i’m 40, and am dealing with my own aging issues (though i look pretty good for my age) what do any of you think about this? i dont want him to feel that his privacy was invaded, but i do want to discuss with him. how to?

  46. Hi Penny!

    Welcome to the blog!

    If I correctly understand your situation from your comment, then I agree you should discuss it with your boyfriend. However, I think there are some things you might want to take into account while planning how to discuss it with him.

    Of course, I’m speaking here from my own male perspective.

    According to some studies I’ve seen over the years, most men masturbate even when they are in a committed relationship and are sexually satisfied with their partners. If that does not at first make sense to you, think “variety is the spice of life”.

    Second, it sounds to me like your boyfriend is having fantasies about teens. Yet, there’s a huge difference between liking to fantasize about teens, and wanting to have actual sex with teens. Most of us have sexual fantasies that we would not want to have happen. So, it’s most likely your boyfriend enjoys fantasizing about teens, but would not do anything to realize his fantasies.

    Last, so far as I know, the biggest turn on in the world is a confident, sexy middle aged woman. A woman’s attitude towards having sex with me has consistently been more important to me than her looks.

    Now, as for how to bring the issue up with your boyfriend, I would use gentle, non-accusatory humor. Get him laughing about it and you can discuss anything.

    I’m sorry that I have no better advice to offer you than what I have.

    • I respectfully disagree. All men would have sex with teenage girls if they knew there were no consequences later. The problem is that there are always consequences. Especially in western countries. Hell there are even laws severely punishing this and strictly enforcing it.

      In the east or other parts of the world, the consequences are next to nil. And guess what? It is an everyday occurrence of older men paying younger girls to have sex with them. Not only by prostitution, but also gifts, mentoring and sugar daddies.

      I do not think when a middle aged man looks at his wife, he wishes she stay old and thanks the lord above that her flabby ass wobbles like jelly with his viagra fueled pumping. Sorry for that graphic description. But I call a spade a spade.

      If we are talking about some transcendent spiritual and sexual bond, which a pair of 80 year olds share. Then yes I agree, there can be made of the ether of the universe and totally enjoy a bond stronger than time itself. But then sex won’t really be on the table will it?

  47. I was specifically looking for a web page with some specific information regarding older men and teen porn sites. Very interesting to read all the comments, particularly by the men as I was seeking a man’s insight.
    I am a 4o yr old woman with two young teenagers (12 and 16).
    I recently discovered my husband,42 yrs, was looking at TEEN porn movies…this actaully sickened me.(well I guess I should say I recently come to realize the truth..in fact I had discovered the teen porn before but he somehow lied his way out of it and I believed him).
    I think it is natural to appreciate youth/beauty-as we do with all things in life. Even as a mother I will often say “oh he is a good looking young man”…or “she is a very pretty girl” with no sexual intent. I assume guys recognize a pretty or handsome face when they see it. And I assumed most men couldn’t resist looking at nude PICTURES/video of younger women if it took their fancy-thinking a woman in her 20’s or thirties would be more age appropriate for an older man) ..but teen porno movies?… not acceptable for me.

    And to the woman Penny re. her BF who is a teacher who may only be fantazing..I think you have legit concerns. The simply fact of being a teacher, surrounded by teenagers 5 days a week and having this desire or fantasy puts him at a significant higher risk to act on his fantasy. Not saying he would but just saying a much higher risk …

  48. Thank you for such well thought out comments, Deana! On reflection, I reckon you could be right that being a teacher of teens might increase the odds of someone’s acting on their fantasies of having sex with teens. I hadn’t thought of that, at first, because I was focused on what seems to be the fact the vast majority of people do not act on their fantasies — at least not their more anti-social ones.

  49. I think that men look at and pursue teenagers/women much younger than they are because of all the images they see everyday. The beauty of women above 30 is rarely glorified or flashed in popular magazines or tv. It’s sad that living well and homes and Gardens are one of the ew magazines that an older sophisticated woman can feel like the majority. When sports illustrated and fashion magazines decide to be fair in their depictions of beauty racially, age wise and culture wise, then perhaps gullible people won’t be brain washed into believing beauty comes out of one box. I could never understand the whole blondes have more fun nonsense. As I’ve aged (26) I realize that there are many people who choose to be swayed into being unhappy with themselves their life and their partner. A man who looks at a teen as a sex object is a predator, plain and simple. Hopefully, the teen he pursues is smart enough to know her worth.

  50. Lisa, I think there might be more than one reason why men look at nude teens, and I believe you have brilliantly put your finger on one of the big ones. If you look back through time at Hollywood stars I think you will find that 50 or 60 years ago the ideal woman those stars represented was older and more sophisticated than today’s ideal woman. At least a decade older, in most cases. That would indicate to me that tastes have changed in what people consider the most desirable women — and, like you, I think the fashion and entertainment industries have a huge influence on those tastes.

    As for your comment about sexual predators, I would only like to add that anyone — regardless of gender — who sees another person as just or only a sex object is debasing that person.

    Thank you for a well thought out and engaging comment.

  51. Hello All,

    I first wanted to offer my congratulations to Paul for hosting such an intense “debate” as to ‘Why do men look at teen nudity.’ Very good job with moderating (I’m sure you had a lot!) and keeping everything cordial.

    Now I would like to share a bit about myself that not very many people are aware of. I am a 25 year old male that is a virgin. Yes a straight out virgin, never even fooled around with a girl before; and no it is not because I promised something or because of religion.

    First a little background…

    I went into High School with five close guy friends and two close girl friends. We never partied, never drank, never smoked, never stayed out late, nothing. We were ‘geeks’ to the very definition of the word. We played Magic the Gathering, skipped lunches to play networked Descent in the architecture room and eventually moved into Quake and the like.

    School was absolutely miserable for me, I was extremely anti-social (not a goth) and was lucky if I talked to anybody during the day unless it was a friend. The primary change occurred on April 20th, 1999 when the Columbine shooting happened (I was going to school in Colorado Springs, CO at the time).

    Within five months I had nothing, no friends, no social life at all (besides the extensive network of friends on the internet via the IRC chat rooms). I became withdrawn and didn’t even talk to teachers during the day. My life went into a rapid free-fall and I started to fantasize about things that I was unable to interact with myself, primarily sex and being with women.

    And now to tie this all into the topic of this blog…I was 16 when Columbine happened and after that event I started to become attracted to girls that age, 9 years later (it started happening about 5 years ago when I got this feeling). I find this extremely strange because when I was a teenager I only enjoyed talking to women with careers and families because of their intellectual ability to hold a conversation and their seriousness of so many things in life. Now it’s 16-19 year old girls that hold my fancy. Why? Why is it that my brain switched from 30-40 year olds to 16-19 year olds?

    Are there any other people out there that have had this happen to them or feel the same way I do? It’s not that I don’t find women my age or older attractive anymore, to the contrary.

    All I can assume is that I am trying to relive my past and experience the things that I was unable to experience when I was younger.

    I smoked pot, got drunk (I drink alone on the weekends now…), found a career, went to college, and purchased a single family house all before I have been able to fulfill the most important thing in a human beings life, that of procreation and continuance of the race.

    I think I completely lost track of where I was going in this memoir of my life and probably forgot about the topic somewhere. Hope someone pulls something useful out of it!

    ~Michael

  52. Oh and I think that the answer to “Why do men look at teen nudity” is because of genetic makeup and the subconsious realization that the requirement to the survival of any living organism is that of procreation and duplication. In order to provide that ability for homo sapians a man must mate with a female. It just so happens that females are in their prime fertile state when they are in their teens. This fertility provides the male with the most likely candidates for successful procreation and the ability to extend the race to infinity and beyond! Even with all that we know about fertility and the ability to force fertility even at older ages the fact remains that a persons natural instinct is hard to overcome and that the older you get the more likely the result will be a failed fertilization or the birth of a non-functioning member of society.

    ~Michael

  53. I came across this site doing research on the subject.

    Does anyone else see the connection here?

    The men that have posted admit to seeing teen girls as attractive and the women state that they see older men as attractive !!!!!!

    Women = attraction to older men/guys
    Men = attraction to younger varieties

    Anyone else putting 2 and 2 together here?

    Ladies, I don’t exactly see to many of you dating men your age. Most if all are older. And how much older are they?

  54. Oh yeah and search for this on google, the results are the opposite of what you might think.

    “why are older men attracted to girls”

    Most come up as ” why are young girls attracted to older men” . A little food for thought.

  55. I’m not sure I have a definitive answer to this question but I have a connecting thought that has been rolling around for a bit.

    Why are men attracted to online teen nudity when a woman of 25 has a body that looks nearly identical? If that question can be answered in an honest manner, I think you might have your answer.

  56. Lady M: “Why are men attracted to online teen nudity when a woman of 25 has a body that looks nearly identical?”

    I don’t know – my reaction is like the lines from “Hey, Nineteen” by Steely Dan – “No, we can’t dance together / No, we can’t talk at all…” (I stop short of “Please take me along when you slide on down.”).

    But my theory is, it’s the attraction of the forbidden. A case of society saying, “You can’t have this,” so, naturally, they desire it *because* it’s forbidden.

    Another part of it may be “The Starship Enterprise Effect,” a fantasy revolving around a desire “to boldly go where no man has gone before.”

    – M. \”/

  57. I think that some men are just shallow, self centered men that find youth and innocence to be more important than being with someone that is intelligent and has strong opinions. They don’t want an actual person so much as an ideal of their perfect female, usually someone that doesn’t understand what a loser they are. They probably can’t handle a real woman, so they go for some empty headed little young thing instead.

  58. Some of it may be due to natural instincts, but I think there is more to it than that. Some men stay married to the same woman for their entire lives, from age 20 to age 90 and never cheat. Some men can’t stay faithful to one woman for more than a couple of months. I could never be involved with a woman/girl more than 5 years younger than myself, it would just be too weird. We would have nothing in common with each other, and she would be at a completely different stage in her mental development. Besides, I am interested in WOMEN not teenagers. Have you ever seen an 18 year old that can cook? You ask her whats for dinner and she asks you where you’re taking her; with someone in her 30s she at least knows how to take care of her man.

  59. @ AL: I agree with you to a point. I think you’ve made some solid observations, but we differ mainly in the emphasis we would put on things, AL. I’m of the opinion that instincts play a much larger role in our preferences than it seems you are of that opinion.

  60. Is there any science backing up the theory that teen girls are at their sexual/reproductive peak and that’s why evolutionarily men enjoy looking at teen bodies?

  61. I don’t know if there is science backing up the theory about teen girls being more attractive because they are more fertile, but there something called New Cow Theory, which explains why men want to have sex with different women, because there is no reproductive benefit to having sex with someone that is already pregnant. Maybe there is an explanation in there, because what better way to be with someone that has not been “serviced” yet than to be with a virgin?

  62. Lady M.: “Is there any science backing up the theory that teen girls are at their sexual/reproductive peak …”

    Reproductive, possibly; sexual, no. As I understand it, that occurs a couple of decades later.

    Then again, that depends on what you mean by “sexual” – do you mean physical/visual sexual attractiveness (really, as much a function of “the eye of the beholder”), or capacity to desire and enjoy sex?

    Al: “I don’t know if there is science backing up the theory about teen girls being more attractive because they are more fertile”

    I believe there’s science backing up the idea that teen girls tend to be seen as more attractive because they are *perceived as being* more fertile.

    – M. \”/

  63. I think it is more our society having double standards for men and women. It is considered desirable for a man to be sexually experienced, but not so for a woman. Sexual inexperience in women is considered a sign of purity, as though women are “soiled” by having sex and children. Historically strong minded women have not been valued or encouraged, because it was seen as a woman’s natural role to be submissive. Her only role was to take care of her family and have children, and many women married early, sometimes as soon as she began menstruating.

  64. Finally a depthful conversation about this subject. I agree that yes, by the time a female is ovulating (as early as 10 or 11) the obvious possibilities are present. AND the best eggs drop first so not only do we have age spots the size of dimes BUT are eggs are old and withered. Sweet. I also get the sensual beauty and attraction. To act on it by viewing on teen porn sites is often illegal hello. “all models are 18″ sure thing. anyone can say so, especially if the site is registered in Russia. You know they are not 18. To train sexual arousal towards this is damaging, to the person, the subjects on the web sites, and the people that are in relationships with the hebophile. Sexual stimulation like this requires the anty to go up.

  65. @ Meowlin….

    I was mostly inquiring as to a woman’s reproductive peak and the consequential arousal of men toward that stimulus. Those stats seem as though they’d be based more on biology and not psychology. We all know female sexual arousal isn’t generally a numbers game geared toward age. Sexual satisfaction (peak years) varies greatly from woman to woman and isn’t as dependent on the age factor as is reproduction.

    I’m asking because as a couple of posters have mentioned (I think? :D), it’s possible men are attracted to teen girls because they are in their peak reproductive years and it’s an evolutionary response for the men to be especially aroused by them. I’m just not so sure.

    First, women have a fairly long reproductive peak lasting well into their latter 20’s. I’ve read that fact before and just found a quick reference:

    http://www.extendfertility.com/female-fertility.htm

    Therefore, I find it hard to believe the plethora of online “Teen” nudity sites really has much to do with biology….It’s my opinion seeing a teen nude is a walk on the naughty side…somewhere you’re not really supposed to go. It’s not nearly as racy or titillating to be attracted to a 25 year old woman. But, to be aroused by a girl of 16 or 17 is definitely taboo in most circles if you’re a man older than 35.

    Now to be fair, I think it’s the provocative advertising words of the teen sites that grabs the lust horns of most men…..that and the girls in pig tails and knee high socks. :p I’m willing to wager most of those girls are of age anyway although oftentimes it’s hard to tell a girl of 16 apart from a girl of 19.

    Generally, I wonder if the attraction is because it’s a bit of taboo mixed in with a touch of the man realizing he’s more sophisticated and older and therefore he feels less intimidated psychologically. Anyway, it’s too much for me to figure out on my own, obviously. :D

    All that I know is most men are attracted to girls once they reach an age of looking good…and that happens to start during the teen years. As long as they keep their hands to themselves (haha), I don’t really see a problem.

  66. I think a large part of it also is society. We live in a society where sex is everywhere, and young girls dress in ways that 20 years ago would not have been accepted. How do you think people would have responded in 1988 in seeing a 13 year old or 14 year old wearing a midriff shirt? Sex is used to sell just about anything, even cars or fast food these days.

  67. hi. I’ve been looking for a blog site like this for a long time. I’m 37 years old and my boyfriend who I’m about to move in with is 35… wow just 5 minutes ago. We’ve had this well I’ve had this concern about his attraction to teen porn. The issue is that I notice him looking at young girls everywhere. The problem I feel is that the images that he continues to feed his mind cause him to continue to objectify even when he doesn’t realize he’s doing it. We have patterns of thoughts, it’s been estimated about 60,000 on an average everyday. Usually they just repeat themselves. The mind is so powerful that one finds it extremely challenging to “turn” off the mind because he or she is no longer looking at a screen. The images evoke mental, emotional and physical responses. What’s been kind of ironic reading all of these entries is that being a 37 year old woman is a hell of a lot more fulfilling than when I was any younger. Admittedly, I’m considered to be very young looking and attractive, but I wouldn’t turn those hands of time back for anything. I’m a former exotic dancer and I allowed myself to be objectified for 8 years. Men need to ask themselves what is the right thing to do. Women are fascinating creatures no matter what age.
    We represent such an amazing powerful ability to bring life into this world, and even after that time is done, to bring wisdom. I guess I will have to see how my lover behaves over time. If I continue to observe this type of issue than it will be hard to live with that. People we all age and we all die. This physical construct is only one aspect of who we are. Learn to expand your consciousness and evolve yourselves so that you are not only seeing people as objects for sex. It’s time to search for more inside yourselves, not in another, whatever the persons age or aesthetic qualities.

  68. Hi Nette! Welcome to the blog, and thank you for a fascinating post!

    The objectification of people — whether sexual, racial, or otherwise — is an age old problem, isn’t it? Unfortunately, I agree with you that objectification seems to be your boyfriend’s problem. But how much of a problem it is for him, I can’t tell.

    On one extreme, the notion of bedding a cute teen could just be an idle male fantasy. I suspect most of us have fantasies we enjoy but would never act on — and that could be the case with your boyfriend.

    But on the other extreme is the folly of actually believing one’s fantasies are true to life. A female equivalent would be the girl who reads romance novels and thinks the male characters in them are genuinely typical of real men. If your boyfriend is at this end of the spectrum, then he thinks the teens he looks at would be as interesting as a 37 year old woman.

    In my middle years, I’ve had many teen friends. I love some of them dearly, but to my mind none of them match up to a woman in her 30s or 40s in terms of their power to be sexually fascinating. In fact, for a man my age (51) teens are pretty much sexually numbing. But that’s not because they lack beauty — it’s because they lack depth and the excitement that depth brings to intimacy.

    I mention all that because — based on what you’ve said — I suspect it could be a lesson your boyfriend has not learned. Does he actually know many teens well enough for them to confide in him? For them to talk frankly with him? For him to understand them as individuals and people in their own right? I myself do. And while it often increases my love for my teenage friends, it certainly decreases my sexual desire for them.

    Nette, I don’t know if I’ve made any sense to you here because I’m coming at the problem from a very difficult to explain point of view. Also, I can’t offer you much more than what I’ve already said because I’m not more familiar with your situation. But I get the impression from what you’ve said that your boyfriend’s problem is he is out of touch with the actual reality of what teens typically are because he has been dealing with them as objects onto which he can project his fantasies, rather than as individuals in their own right. Does that make any sense? Or, am I — as is usual for me — way off base?

    By the way, if that is indeed his problem, then the good news is he won’t need meds to solve it — he’ll just need to get way more down to earth and realistic.

  69. I came across this blog entry today and found it very interesting as it relates to a situation I have found myself in recently.

    Now, the main consensus during these discussions it the point of view from the older generation. I found that in life, we can see things from one point of view, but that one point of view is not the whole view. Sort of like an artists viewfinder – it zooms into one part of an image and you see only a portion, but not the whole.

    I have just turned 18 years old, not that my age matters or should be a judgement on what I have to say here.

    Now it seems that the main argument of why older men should not act on their desires to pursue younger women, is the fact that we have no ‘depth of feeling or thought’, and no ‘wisdom’, since only age can bring wisdom. Now, this may be the case for the majority of 16-25 year olds, but there also happens to be a rare few out there that have been through a lot in their short lives, and therefore have found an inner wisdom that most people, regardless of age/gender, yearn for their whole lives. I have found this especially true for myself, since I found nothing to relate to in this body orientated society that we live in, where perfection is sought through bodily manners. The pressures of living up to this image of temporary perfection (in my early teens 13-15) got so bad that I had to leave my place of education as the increased negativity and confusion of the youths around me became more and more overwhelming. I spent the majority of two years alone and away from society’s pressures, and in those two years managed to gain insights into myself, and learn about myself and what I was worth as a human being. It makes you think, doesn’t it, that if we placed less importance on the beauty of body, and outward perfection as a whole in society, we might see the inner beauty, true and everlasting light that we all project naturally within us, no matter how buried it is? Then we would not base our attractions to others on age or physical beauty, rather to what we see in other’s souls.
    Anyway, we should not assume that age equates to wisdom because I have met ‘children’ who have such a wisdom that ‘adults’ are blind to!

    I think it is very tempting in our society to place people in boxes, and stamp a label on it, basically because we do not understand at all. We judge things, we judge situations and in doing so we lose the real meaning behind things. Maybe the only way to understand certain things is to take a step back, remove all judgement and see the whole picture? There is an importance placed on beautiful bodies, and innocence, yes. But why? Maybe all of us want that purity, because purity goes beyond this world and touches that ‘divine’ part of ourselves. We all want to be loved and accepted without judgement, and we all deserve to be. The alluring fact is that the younger you are, the more pure you appear to be, even if that is not true in essence. I think it is more likely that an older person will be transformed back to their own sense of innocence through the fantasy of loving a younger girl/boy. Is there anything wrong with this? Absolutely not. But maybe people should try and go within themselves to find this, rather than through fantasies. After all, only temporary satisfaction can be found outside, only true happiness within ourselves.

    Most people, young/old, man/woman just wants to be loved at the core of themselves. And in this demanding society we live in, there seems little time, and little place for this non-judgemental type love. If we stepped out of the little roles we act in this giant play, we would see that we are all one and the same. How can you not love someone who is the same as yourself? Everyone is struggling to find this fact, that is right before their eyes.

    I happen to be in a relationship with a much, much older man. Did I ever fantasise being in a relationship with an older man ? Not at all. Do I judge him, love him for his age? No. I have my own wisdom, he has his, and we love each other for who we are. Love goes beyond these boundaries, and if society saw this, then we’d live in a much more beautiful, accepting world.

    It seems the issue here isn’t really about older men looking at younger women. It’s about how we define ourselves through societies eyes, and how judgements and boundaries create division and not togetherness.

    Regards,
    Em.

  70. @ Em – “Anyway, we should not assume that age equates to wisdom ”

    Nor should we assume that intelligence equates to wisdom either. Completely separate qualities (recent government provides a prime example of this). Often, one can be very intelligent, yet quite foolish.

    A rarer scenario, one can also have limited intelligence, but a profound wisdom.

    That’s one thing that Dungeons & Dragons’ character system got right.

    – M. \”/

  71. ‘one can also have limited intelligence, but a profound wisdom.’

    Maybe this is because at it’s core, wisdom is simple logic. Intelligence seeks to reason, where wisdom would simply accept.

    Are we not as foolish as our leaders for selecting them to lead us?

  72. I have no problem with my husband looking at porn (I do it too), or beautiful young women and models (as long as he’s not doing it in front of me). What bothers me is the teen porn and underage stuff.

    I find that the older I get, the younger the men I find attractive. To me, men are aesthetically most pleasing in their early twenties, and I love their relative innocence and playfulness, although I’d never want to date one. When I do catch myself finding a, say, 17 year old boy attractive, he still looks like a young man. If he hasn’t has lost that boyish puppy-ness, I’m not attracted.
    I think a lot of it has to do with social expectations, like Scott suggested. Women are expected to be innocent, men experienced. It’s not so much biology that makes women go for older men- men’s fertility begins to drop in their mid twenties, sooner than for women. And yes, for women the drop is more dramatic, but recent studies all suggest that the older the man, the longer it takes to make a woman pregnant, and the risk of having unhealthy children increases significantly the older a man gets.

    Since men are the ones who have access to status and wealth, it benefits women to seek out those men, and it usually takes years to reach a certain level of status, therefore they’re older. The more equal a society is (between the sexes), the smaller the desired age gap. I should know- I grew up in Scandinavia, which is much more equal than the US, and I noticed as soon as I moved here how much more obsessed Americans are with age.

    Anyway-I agree with Andrea, I too think it’s not so much about attractiveness and smooth skin and nice bodies- a woman in her early twenties has all of that! But rather the age it self that is attractive to these men. Maybe it is the taboo-thing. The girls in some of the pics my husband has are not even naked or pornographic in any way, or even attractive, still he uses the pics in a sexual way because of their young faces.

    OK, back to me. How can I deal with my husband’s obsession with young teens? It’s partly about my insecurities- I’m 29 (he’s 31), a model, I look young, I have a great body, we have great sex everyday (seriously!), he tells me all the time how attracted he is to me. And yet he makes me feel old! But more so than my insecurity issues (because I can work on them), it’s about this gut feeling of disgust and fear that he objectifies underage girls… I remember when I was a teenager, and how attention from older men would creep me out. Can any one suggest a way to deal with it? How should I think about this? I fear that talking to him about it too much will only make it more exciting for him. Do I really need to suck it up when it makes me so miserable, and has begun to change how I see him? Can I get over it?

  73. Em: “Are we not as foolish as our leaders for selecting them to lead us?”

    Who said we selected them? More often than not, I’ve taken a good look at the options available and cast my vote for the one who scares me least.

    But not voting at all would be the nadir of foolishness.

    – M. \”/

  74. Hi Em! Thank you such well written and valuable comments! And welcome to the blog!

    I pretty much find myself in agreement with most of your insights — especially with your point that there are exceptions to almost every generalization. I would like to point out, however, that anyone as wise as you appear to be at 18 is most likely going to become even wiser later on in life. There are people who are still fools at 70, but I get the sense you yourself will never be a complete fool at any age.

    As for your relationship with a much older man, I think it’s wonderful you’ve had the courage and good sense to allow yourself to love him despite societal expectations. That speaks volumes about you. Love and mutual respect are by far the most important things.

  75. Hi Lola!

    If you don’t mind considering the advice of a certified idiot (myself), then let me recommend two options for you.

    First, you might consider that most people have fantasies they would never, in a million lifetimes, wish to come true for them. I have read from numerous sources that polls consistently show the number one female sexual fantasy in America is to be raped. But how many women would want their favorite fantasy of being raped to actually come true. Probably about 7 individuals out of the millions of women who share the fantasy. So, while your husband might fantasize about underage girls, it seems to me most likely that he would not want to ever pursue his fantasies. So, you might first consider that aspect of the issue before you pursue any other option.

    But, Lola, if you are still not reconciled to his fantasizing about underage girls then I would give serious thought to discussing your feelings with a skilled therapist. A good, skilled therapist — such as the one I myself go to — can do wonders to help you find ways of resolving issues. That’s because you have only dealt with the issue once in your life, but he or she has probably encountered it or something similar dozens of times and knows what works and what doesn’t.

    Last, I urge you not to write off your feelings as insignificant. No offense intended here, but you women are always sacrificing your feelings because you think they are less important than everyone else’s, or because you think it’s your job as a woman to put your own feelings on the shelf. That’s utter nonsense. This issue is quite important to you and it could have profound effects on your relationship and self-image unless you take yourself seriously and resolve it. So whatever else you do, don’t “suck it up”!

    Oh. One more thing. At 29, I could not imagine how much happier I would be at 40 and 50. I doubt you can either. So, quit worrying too much about getting old. You have a few pleasant surprises in store you for, methinks.

  76. “quit worrying too much about getting old. You have a few pleasant surprises in store you for, methinks.”

    Hear, hear.

    – M. \”/

  77. Paul,
    thank you for your time and advice, nothing idiotic about your reply at all!:)
    And now, to exhaust this subject further… The funny thing is, I’m not at all worried that my husband would want to live out any fantasies. It is just the mere fact that the girls are so young that creeps me out. He says he likes to look at young girls (who look like they could be 13-14-15 years old) because they are pretty, and that he doesn’t find them sexually arousing. The pics he has are non-pornographic, the girls are fully dressed. And it still creeps me out to no end, even though I know he is completely harmless, and that it’s not something he is obsessed about. What, if it isn’t sex, could this be about? Is it normal? If he were a gay man looking at young teenage boys, would that have been considered to be the same thing (just pretty faces, nothing sexual)? And why, if I know it’s harmless, do I get so upset? I guess I just don’t understand what it is about. Sure, young boys can be very pretty too, but I wouldn’t bother saving pics of them.
    Hm, yeah, seems like I really need to see a therapist to sort this out.

  78. @ Lola: “He says he likes to look at young girls (who look like they could be 13-14-15 years old) because they are pretty, and that he doesn’t find them sexually arousing. … What, if it isn’t sex, could this be about?”

    Aesthetics. I like to look at pictures of cats (or, for that matter, real cats). That’s not about sex. Some people like to look at other species, or beautiful landscapes, or flowers.

    Appreciate beauty wherever your eye beholds it.

    – M. \”/

  79. @ Lola: A good therapist should at least help you work through your options and perhaps show you ways of dealing with the situation that haven’t occurred to either of us. Good luck! And feel free to let me know how things go.

  80. i have a question:
    so do men feel more sexually attracted to teens than they do to women in there 20’s?
    regardless of maturity….

  81. @ Dan: I think it very much depends on the people involved, although I have read the opinion of one sex therapist who stated that most of her clients considered women in their twenties much more sexually attractive than teenagers.

  82. thank you so much for answering my question so quickly!
    I’ve been looking for a website like this for about a year because it’s not always easy to talk about this subject with people you know.
    I ‘ve asked a few men if they feel sexually attracted by young teens (13,14,15,16) and they’ve all denied it…But i’m not sure if i should believe that being that many 12 year old girls look like they’re at least 16…scary!
    I’m starting to think that maybe it’s normal for older guys to think 16 year olds are sexy , but anything younger than that really bothers me,I can’t get used to the idea , it’s repulsive. I’ve read that a man (or woman )is considered a pedophile if they are sexually attracted to girls/boys of 12 and under.
    i also agree with Melanie, i’m a 22 year old woman and in my opinion I’m pretty open minded to new ideas, but the ” teen sex topic” has bothered me for quiet some time for the fact that grown men are the one seeking it. And as Melanie wrote , are we supposed be competing with the 16 year old or even the younger ones?That’s so absurd to me.I can’t and don’t want to believe it.But if that’s the reality of things, that young teens are more sexually attractive than women in there 20’s than MEN: GIVE ME SOME HONEST ANSWERS.
    i also want to add that for 11 years i lived in Europe and one thing that I’ve noticed about teens over there and American teens is that too many of them look much older here in the states, at least 2/3 years older than European teens, at least!i wonder if it’s all the hormones that dairy and meet contains…I don’t know.
    @LOLA: 13, 14? Maybe 15 is a little more bearable, but i could never look at my boyfriend the same way i used too. That would creep me out too…especially if they actually look like they are THAT young . And i wouldn’t compare it to things ( like cats or flowers )like Meowlin wrote.

  83. @ Dan: If a 22 year old man’s more attracted to a 16 year old than to a 22 year old, how confident and mature do you suppose that man might be?

  84. I don’t know, i don’t even know if it has to do with the guy’s maturity level….If he’d be attracted by the 16 year old’s personality I would consider him just as immature as the teenager.but if we are Only talking about physical attraction and nothing more?i don’t think it’s as strange for a man in his early 20’s to feel more sexually attracted towards girls that are a little younger than him (a little), same for women. i myself tend to feel more attracted to men that are older than me.
    i don’t know….I’m just trying to get some answers on this so I can either accept it or relax, hopefully both =]

  85. Dan, I really think it depends on the man. Some men are one way, and some another. Just as you might have a preference for whether a man has one kind of looks or another kind of looks, you might also discover that you have a preference for whether a man prefers teens or not. Does that make any sense?

  86. It does make sense for a man to be attracted to a certain look or type, just as long as it is understood that there is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. It is OK to fantasize about the 16 year old babysitter, but it’s another thing entirely to attempt to actually do anything. One thing I don’t understand is the assumption that teenage girls actually WANT to have sex with men in their 40s or 50s. If men are not attracted to older women, what makes anyone think a young girl would be attracted to a fat balding middle aged man?

  87. I think that everyone has different ideals relating to sexual partners and you will get different opinions from each person as to wether teens are attractive.Statistical analysis will show that by and large men are not more attracted to teens.Having said that,some men develop abnormally and for reasons that will never be understood become fixated by people outside of their age bracket.I am one example.Being a man who has no sexual interest in anyone other than adolescent boys or young men(perhaps early twenties)I can say that it is just unfortunate that some people turn out this way.The nature of their sexual orientation can never be changed,and despite popular opinion they are only rarely driven by power or conrol,and only rare individuals would ever coerce a younger person into sex.Another teen is far more likely to coerce a young person into sex than any “paedophile”.Also I think the value of maturity and intelligent conversation are vastly overrated.Consider a mans best friend,the dog.They dont even share a language at all and are on completely different intellectual planes yet many humans would find them better companions than another person of equal intellect.Likewise why would a person need an intellectual equal to enjoy sex,an activity that rarely involves conversation?Affection and sexual attraction to me dont rely on conversation with a mature peer.

  88. Dan: “Also I think the value of maturity and intelligent conversation are vastly overrated.Consider a mans best friend,the dog.They dont even share a language at all and are on completely different intellectual planes yet many humans would find them better companions than another person of equal intellect.”

    I guess your mileage may vary, but I don’t go out of my way to read dogs’ blogs all that much.

    As for face-to-face companion ship… I haven’t lived with a dog in several decades, but my cats have always communicated their feelings and opinions quite clearly. Some of them have even learned to speak a little English.

    – M. \”/

  89. It is kind of devastating,, I am my 40’s still looking good for may age,, but my 50’s year old boyfriend doesn’t care about having sex with me, in fact in a year probably had sex 5 times, he keeps saying he is tired wrong time, but I found he was watching nude sites some from teen girls, and I am sure he masturbate while watching them, is just sad, and I feel old and worthless.

  90. Hi Rose! Welcome to the blog! Frankly, I find it dysfunctional that a 50 year old man would be more interested in fantasizing about teenagers than in enjoying sex with a woman near his age. I think he might find it beneficial to see a psychiatrist or therapist. If he is reluctant to see one, then I urge you yourself to go alone. A good professional might give you some insights into how to deal with your boyfriend’s problem.

  91. @ Rose: “I am my 40’s still looking good for may age,, but my 50’s year old boyfriend doesn’t care about having sex with me”

    Tell him I’d be more than willing to sub for him… and I don’t doubt there are many others.

    – M. \”/

  92. After reading all this I feel I should express somethings as this topic hits home with me. Almost a year ago I caught my husband bugged eyed and dry mouth as I entered his office one night at our home. I can’t explain how but I knew he was up to something. After playing detective the next day I uncovered some very disturbing secrets about my husband, he had been looking at websites that hosted pornagraphic pictures /videos of teenage girls. Although the websites state that the girls are 18 and 19 it was obvious some were as young as 15. My biggest shock and concern was that I never knew that he was interested in teenage girls and the fact that we have 2 teenage daughters. Did they or there friends play apart in a sick fantasy for him? These thoughts sickenend me to think of. I have been able to put this behind me, it has taken months of hard work on my husbands part and mine. But to this day I still have insecurities because I guess I will never really know everything.

  93. “Although the websites state that the girls are 18 and 19 it was obvious some were as young as 15.”

    I’m interested in hearing how you reached that conclusion without having any off-line contact with the models.

    – M. \”?

  94. And thats the very comment my husband made to me. I guess I really don’t know how old these girls are. But I can tell you the concensus on the forum is if the girl looks to be in here early 20’s they want her off. The people at the website want Teens

  95. lisa: “the concensus on the forum is if the girl looks to be in here early 20’s they want her off. The people at the website want Teens”

    I’ll take you at your word on that. Doesn’t sound like the kind of place I’d be interested in – not the pictures, nor the people using it.

    – M. \”/

  96. @ lisa — But another person I take at his word – Eolake Stobblehouse. There are a few models at Domai who I’d be skeptical of whether they’re 18 or above – except that they’re on Domai, and I trust Eolake when he says they are.

    Sometimes people (male or female) just retain the illusion of extreme youth for a bit longer than most of us do. Maybe a skilled make up artist has an effect in some cases too.

    – M. \”/

  97. Well I understand what your saying, I guess my concern is what this says to young women. At such a young age these girls are allowing themselves to be objectified without really knowing what other qualities they have to offer. I think by the time most young women reach early 20’s they have a better since of who they are and at that point in life if they choose to get naked in front of the camera more power to them. I think as adults WE, men and women both should emphasize more on self worth, education, and healthy outlets for our girls in there adolescent and teenage years. Like I told my husband, “Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.”

  98. Thank you Meowlin for giving me your insights on this subject. As you know this is a subject that concerns many people especially people like myself that have been hurt and left confused. This has been somewhat theraputic for me. Although I’ve read alot about this subject and it has been helpful, up to this point I hadn’t spoken of this to anyone. I think I have a lot more to say about adults looking at teen porn, but the bottom line is I can’t and won’t ever except it as normal behavior. Thanks again for communicating your thoughts to me, just writting my own thoughts down has been good for me.
    Lisa

  99. “looking at teen porn, but the bottom line is I can’t and won’t ever except it as normal behavior.”

    I do tend to think it’s (more or less) normal. But there’s a big difference between “normal”… and “good” or “constructive” or any other positive adjective you might be able to think of.

    In the immortal words of the prophet Mr. Spock (the pointy-eared Spock; not to be confused with Dr. Spock), “I said I understand. That doesn’t mean I approve.”

    – M. \”/

  100. Wow old men think its OK to be dirty and also think young girls will be attracted to there old wrinkled faces and saggy testicles? That’s narcissism at the fullest. I understand men are lower in empathy than females but to say females biologically want men older and men want soft young teens because of the superficial benefits. In the world of narcissism it’s a mans world i am officially going gay as of now

  101. Hi Susie! Welcome to the blog! Could you reference where someone has argued that all young teens want old men as lovers? Or where someone has argued that all old men want young teens as lovers? I don’t recall those passages?

  102. Hi Paul
    Sorry I didn’t mean to be so harsh. I think men who indulge in internet pornography are being brainwashed since it practically shoves teens down their throat. A man has nowhere else to turn. If a man doesn’t start out liking teen girls if he most likely will be brainwashed. The over 30 sites typically don’t seem to feature really good looking females. Most beautiful women over 30 have a full life and wouldn’t pose for pornography on the Internet. It seems that men get the opinion that grown women don’t look good. I wish I could show you my bombshell beautiful friends over 30. By the way, they would never show their vagina for everyone on the Internet to see

  103. @ susie: please clarify – what are your parameters for “pornography”? (“The difference between pornography and erotica? Lighting.” – Gloria Leonard)

    “A man has nowhere else to turn. … The over 30 sites typically don’t seem to feature really good looking females.”

    They – or you – aren’t looking hard enough (pun not intended, but noted). Check my entry of Feb. 15th in this thread for just one example. (He doesn’t post over-30 women *exclusively*, but he does fairly often.) And, from there, links to others.

    “I wish I could show you my bombshell beautiful friends over 30.”

    I’d love to see them. Were it possible, I’d love to meet them.

    “By the way, they would never show their vagina for everyone on the Internet to see”

    I wouldn’t expect to see vaginas except maybe on gynecological websites. Labia, on the other hand… those are more widely (another unintentional pun) available.

    “to say females biologically want men older ”

    No – biologically, females want men better able, in the long run, to provide care and security for them and any resulting offspring. The Jonas Brothers are very lusted-after by young females right now, and perceived as “cute” – but they’d be considerably less “cute” if they weren’t raking in the bucks at this time. Not reduced to zero-cute, but significantly less.

    “and men want soft young teens because of the superficial benefits.”

    Which benefits are you calling “superficial”? Males (of any age) are biologically “hardwired” to be attracted to mates on the basis of the appearance of health and fertility. But some of us manage to override that “hardwiring”, to some extent or another. You’re painting us all with a pretty broad brush, here.

    – M. \”/

  104. The funniest thing just struck me after reading views about teen pregnancy, Blog- How Texas helps Teen Pregnancy. Its really left me baffled about how ignorant we adults really are. We look at pretty young things on the internet hoping that by law they are at least 18, although knowing thats not always the case. But feel that it OK because we’re not breaking in laws, after all the website discloses that all teens are in fact 18 and over. Well now I feel better, not a dirty perv, chics 18 possible 19 now I have no problem here,they are of age . I mean isn’t this what we are saying, whether we looking at beautiful “models” not performing sexually acts or teens that are doing it all. Well now this brings me around to how in the hell do we split the two? One minute yourlooking at a pretty young thing and you feel ok about it after all she is of age. But then these are our young ladies that we are talking about our young girls that end up pregnant and we then feel, “oh my, young girls pregnant” what will they do? So young, life just getting started, why we as society has failed them, they should have had better parenting. OH COME ON! We have them all grown up one minute and back down to babies the next! What do we do?? Better yet what do they do? If we are telling are teens by watching them undress in front of the camera, engage in sex, taking part in whatever will get the attention of the viewer, that we except, as adults what they are doing. But lets say the girl becomes pregnant, does she still model, does she still post herself having sex? I’m doubtful, because at this point while there may be some that don’t most will be calling up mom and dad, better yet probally just going downstairs to the kitchen, letting mom and dad know she knocked up, boy friend doesn’t have a job, boyfriend really isn’t a boyfriend just a friend and well, mom and dadnyour little girl need help now she’s a baby again. Two nights ago before she knew she was pregnant she was upstairs in her room posting pictures of herself for all the world to see.

  105. lisa: “But lets say the girl becomes pregnant, does she still model, does she still post herself having sex? I’m doubtful, ”

    Nadia Suleiman (spelling may not be accurate there), the “OctoMom,” just got offered a porn contract. At last report, she is considering accepting it.

    – M. \”/

  106. Hey y’all..Just on a personal note.My husband told me he found me more beautiful and sexually attractive as a mature woman as compared to when I was a teenager.And we met when I was 14 and he was 16 so we were “age appropriate” then and our now.He told me this without prompting ..and I was in my 30’s when he said it.Thats how he feels about me.

    As to other women(or girls) that are younger.Im sure he cant help but notice these girls beauty.Heck ..I notice there beauty.But I dotn think he daydreams or has fantasises about having sex with them.Or that he woudl want to if he could at his age.(43)..In fact I have asked him before if we werent together woudl he go after a 20 year old? He said absolutley not.I’ve already been through that and woudnt want to have to again! LOL!!!

    Love

    Dallas

  107. I think men who indulge in Internet pornography are being brainwashed since it practically shoves teens down their throat. A man has nowhere else to turn. If a man does not start out liking teen girls if he most likely will be brainwashed.
    “I SAID MOST MEN I DID NOT SAY ALL”
    The over “30 + years old sites” typically do not seem to feature good-looking females, and a lot of the women are 65 -70 years old.
    “There are always occasional exceptions”. Most beautiful women over 30 have a full life and would not pose for internet pornography.
    “I said most! This could change but as of now the proof is there It is disproportionate young little teens just look at the internet. .(I was shy about my showing my vagina when I was a young girl)Anyways times have changed quickly.
    Why do these girls do porn, well? Imagine someone’s husband or fiancé masturbating to the teen, all that male attention to a teen makes them feel beautiful even though they will be discarded by a new girls picture after a few orgasms” This is why SOME young teens do pornography. Women as a rule we have more sense and are less attention seeking as a rule compared to when we are a 17 or 18 yr old girl… .
    Many people will want to bury their head in the sand and will disagree with me because an illusion is easier than a harsh fact. The proof is their just check Internet porn!
    And this is depressing stuff so I expect a swarm of bloggers in disagreement. I wont check back good luck and my love to all as we are all brothers and sisters and trying to enjoy life in this big world

  108. ““I SAID MOST MEN I DID NOT SAY ALL””

    No, you didn’t

    “I think men who indulge in internet pornography are being brainwashed ”

    I don’t see the word “most” in that statement.

    – M. ò”ô

  109. i believe some of the comments made on this website are extremely patronising and belittling towards teenage girls. Im 15 years old, and i realise that I am not an adult emotionally, but i do not think emotionally i am the same as a child. to be put in the same category as a girl aged 12,11,10,9,8 or even younger is insultive to me, and to be honest im sick of being referred to as a “silly naive young girl”. I am in no way naive, and i am not silly either. I am completely aware of the consequences of certain situations in life, such as a teenage girl dating an older man (im not talkin 1 or 2 years older, im talking 5 or more). I think you would have to be very naive to believe at 15, dating a 40 year old that claims he “loves you” really does love you. If a 40 year old man did want to date a 15 year old girl, his motives are obviously going to be dark. However, it is not always the older men who take advantage of young girls. Some of my friends have lied about their age and chased after guys alot older than them, with these older guys not realising their real age. As for teenage girls still having a “childlike” look about them, i don’t think that makes sense at all. I have often been mistaken for 19 or older, and many of my friends have aswell. However, i dont take advantage of that fact. Another thing that I found insulting is the stereotype of teenage girls being thrown on every girl under the age of 18. We are not all silly, giggly girls who only talk about boys they like and the way they look, and we don’t all go round in tiny miniskirts and tight tank tops! Sure, there are some girls like that, but not all! I think of myself as a young woman, not a child but not an adult. I don’t have the experience as a 30 year old woman has, but that doesn’t mean im a child, so don’t treat me like one! I am very secure with myself, and I like to think of myself as mature. Getting back onto the subject, i think men are very deluded if they watch teen porn and really believe teenage girls have tight bodies and perfect complexions haha!

  110. Hi I dont know if this site is still open but you all seem like level headed seeming people and I was hoping for some advice. I am a male 26 year old and I look at pictures of teens on the web and masterbate over them, I dont go searching for them in particular but they just seem to be everywhere. I dont have any particular fantasies about them.I prefer full figured women with curves in all the right places :)
    I´m engaged to be married to a very beautiful 27 year old woman. The sex is fantastic and I find her to be perfection personified. The point of this is that the other month my woman discovered my habit and wasn´t best pleased. She had doubts about the relationship, she was worried about my feelings for her and even about the age girls seemed that I masterbated over.
    I have tried to convince her that there is no deeper meaning and really there isnt but still she has some doubts about our relationship. She is jealous now without reason about women I work with and even somtime glance at as we walk in the street. She has insecurities now that she didn´t have when we started together, I dont know if there is a link but I wonder often if porn is the cause. I feel so bad about it all it tears me up inside.

    The point of all of this is to ask for advice, What can I do to help fix this problem? I love my woman and I only want her happyness what can I do or say to clear these doubts?

    Porn is a desease it is too readily available and it eats away at relationships. It has no perpose except to create false images in the minds of both men and women and most certainly to make money. Momentary plesures at what cost? Porn puts fake ideals in the minds of young men and women alike, edited photos creating a type of perfection that is unattainable. Porn isn´t the only medium, these insecurities are pushed on us constantly, we see them every day on magazine covers and advertisements on TV and fashion postings. A never ending stream of images are bombarding our impressionable youth, but also older people are open to this too.
    My email address is filled every few weeks with more and more adverts for viagra and “man hood” enlarging technologies.Womens magazines push the latest in makeups scafolding Bras.. bah My rant is escaping me, also I apologise for any bad spelling.
    Please offer me some advice even if it is bad another point of view would be welcome. Thanks for your time if anyone is still here.

  111. Hi Mr. Tibs! Welcome to the blog! I’m afraid I’m at a loss what advice to offer you in dealing with your fiancées’ new anxieties. I don’t think she actually has any reason to be anxious because you seem like a level headed person who would not put pornography before her in your priorities. The only thing I can think of is the two of you seek out joint counseling. Perhaps with a therapist acting as a disinterested third party, the two of you can work out the issues here. Sorry I couldn’t give better advice.

  112. Mr. Tibs: “Porn is a desease it is too readily available and it eats away at relationships. It has no perpose except to create false images in the minds of both men and women and most certainly to make money.”

    First of all, porn is not a disease. It’s a commodity. Obsession with porn is.. well, like obsession with cats or guns or shoes or any other commodity; it’s the obsessor’s fault, not the commodity’s.

    “Porn puts fake ideals in the minds of young men and women alike, edited photos creating a type of perfection that is unattainable.”

    I don’t know about you, but, since porn or photo-erotica has only the visual sense to work on (maybe hearing in the case of movies/video) – it can’t stimulate your sense of touch, or cuddle you afterward, or discuss philosophy or movies or art with you – it has to appeal to the visual a heck of a lot more intensely than an actual woman would. Again, I don’t know about you, but (though I’ll settle for porn during times when it’s all that’s available) a woman would have to be rather extremely unappealing for me to choose porn over her. (Then again, an actual woman would have a lot more ways than the purely visual to be *un*appealing too. But since you’re engaged to the woman in question here, I’m guessing that’s not a problem in your situation.)

    So – unless your fiancée attempts to initiate intimacy and you’ve been telling her, “No thanks – I’d rather masturbate to pictures of the Olson Twins tonight,” I don’t think either of you has anything to worry about.

    “I´m engaged to be married to a very beautiful 27 year old woman. The sex is fantastic and I find her to be perfection personified.”

    So… do you have a camera? Would she be comfortable posing nude just for you, for the purpose of stimulating your masturbatory pleasure, during those times when you can’t be together?

    And how would you feel about doing the same for her?

    – M. \”/

  113. When are we going to stop excusing weak-minded men on the basis that that’s how they are genetically programmed? They also have the ability to use their higher level thinking function – remember it’s the thing that differentiates humans (well some) from the animals. On the basis of the genes and reproduction argument we should still be excusing incest and the use of child prostitutes.
    Personally I am of the view that these men are looking at porographic pictures of teen-age girls because they are teen-age boys in men’s bodies. And the law is the only reason they don’t reach out and touch.

  114. @ Melanie – I can understand your insecurities, but well – life isn’t always fair on everyone. It isn’t just men who are to be blamed for being shallow about looks when it comes to getting sexually attracted to someone. I wish at 5 3′ I were as attractive to adult women as are the 5 10′ + feet guys. However, they are just wishes. I haven’t had much success in dating women in my age range, because they couldn’t look past my height. So instead of being in stuck in a (long) waiting game that could take me into my 30s (or perhaps death), I’ve decided to make most of what I have now – my good looks and below average height. I find that a lot of teenage girls in the 15-19 age range show sexual interest in me, so I’ve decided to go for them instead. I’d prefer the mature looking ones though, since childish looking ones make me feel brotherly and asexual. I’ve found teenage girls less shallow, less of golddiggers, more adventurous, experimental, attractive and easygoing then the (few) women in their 20s that I’ve had to deal with.

    Perhaps given the chance, I’d have gone for a woman my age who I find attractive and who in turn is as attracted to me. However, as of now I would NOT wait and give up my opportunities just for some woman to notice me once she is well into her 30s, had all the fun of her youth and is looking for a ‘dependable’ man to ‘settle down’ (as she is past the age where her looks could have got her ‘everything’). As for society, I couldn’t care less about what they think of me, as they couldn’t care enough to help me deal with my situation.

    As for those who consider teenagers as kids, this is more of a social construct than reality. A little review of past history and good ol’ human biology can sort this out, rather than politically correct ‘researches’ and ‘studies’ done to keep the masses happy. In the end of the day, emotional maturity isn’t a function of age, but of experience. A random 15-year old *could* have as much or more maturity and resilience of spirit than a random 30-year old.
     
    @ Michael – I have been through the same situation as yours, albeit in a different part of the world. I lived with strictly religious parents, who totally closed down my normal teenage impulses in order to ‘protect’ me (parties, athletics, dates, etc). Because of this, I was often very lonely and found solace reading voraciously (which *did* help my academics but didn’t help my physical/social well being). On to university, I ended up being the guy with a social disconnect from students my age. My height didn’t help either, especially in the dating arena. To cope up with the misery (again), I buried myself into academics and patient care (as a medical student). While it made me a qualified doctor, it repelled me so much that I didn’t get around to being a practicing doctor. I ended up in a profession in a completely different field. While my social life improved, there are some aspects that can’t get over my ‘skipped’ teenage and early twenties. And yeah, I’ve made alcohol my bedtime friend too, perhaps drugs if things don’t go well soon.

    Coming back to the topic, perhaps a man’s attraction to teenage girls later in life could partly be attributed to a lack of successful sexual relationships during their own teenage years (for whatever reasons). Plenty of room for some original research here…

  115. To Juan -only an aging man who is very insecure about his looks would say such cruel things about woman just because she’s over 30. !!
    People who are bitter towards the aging are always insecure about getting old themselves. And those are the people who age the worst-(karma catches up with you)Some people are like peter pan and will not grow up mentally, even though the body will be definitely aging. People who are attracted to young girls might want to lay off Internet porn since it overwhelming features young teen girls. Pedophiles who started with internet porn should get a law suit going against the pornographers, for the pedophile trend they have started, that very well may have influenced the men and landed them in prison.

  116. By the way My boyfriend is 5’4 I am 5’6. I am really attracted to his height. I know about superficial lady’s. I drop my superficial girlfriends like a hot rock. There are exceptions but You have to look hard to find one. Many women are narcissistic like many men are. Eventually you will find a good one when you least expect it. I find women to be less ego centric than school girls. It’s all about popularity with teens, as that’s an egocentric age.. I remember how my teen friends judged guys so harshly when it came to sex. If an older guy would hit on them they would just show off and giggle by call him an old man to each other. It was really mean if you ask me. Adult women usually are more tactful and considerate. ( I say usually).

  117. @ Sue:

    Well Ms. Sue, I call a spade for what it is, at least in the internet. You can’t really expect me to subscribe to your Americanised ideals of political correctness and faked niceties. Now, lets get to the point.

    ..only an aging man who is very insecure..

    At 25 years of age, I wish I aged my age to LOOK 25. Apart from the height, my boyish looks is another thing I have to deal with, since my college days. You are off by a wide margin.
     

    ..are always insecure about getting old themselves..

    I am NOT a woman. I have no insecurity in getting old myself. I’d LIKE to look my age, rather than looking years too young. For men, looking too young come at a disadvantage in professions like the one I am qualified for.
     

    Pedophiles who started with internet porn should get a law suit..

    I don’t watch internet porn (or porn of any sort) anyway, so thats once again, a wild jumping into conclusions.
     

    You have to look hard….Eventually you will find a good one when you least expect it.

    Ha ha. Thanks for this wonderful idea, but no thanks. I have heard this one too many times and too long, believing in it, hoping and expectant that someone ‘will come along when I least expect it’, if I ‘looked hard’ enough. All it helped was make me a 25-year-old virgin, who turned to alcohol, books and gothic music for bedtime company.
    Things got better after I got real and understood that womanspeak like this are just to keep ‘useful’ guys waiting. In any case, if I’d have had to wait so long for a woman till I ‘least expect it’, it would have been way too late…
     

    I find women to be less ego centric than school girls.

    In my situation, the exact opposite. I’ve had teenage girls hit on me and flirt with me first. At present, I’m dating a pretty 17 year old girl, who is a lot more straightforward, a lot less judgemental and jaded than the women my age. In contrast to teenage girls who see me as ‘interesting and cool’, women my age consider me not more than a ‘little brother’.

    And yeah, I’ve also noticed that teenage girls are not as apt to jump into such wild conclusions about someone’s personal characteristics as you are…that makes ‘the wait’ not worth at all.
     

    It was really mean if you ask me. Adult women usually are more tactful and considerate.

    Thats the point. Teenage girls are a lot more straightforward and honest than adult women. Being ‘tactful and considerate’ for the sake of niceties is more cruel than stating things in-your-face (even if it hurts the said person for the moment). The latter makes one get their perspectives right and a chance to review their option, while the former gives them a false hope, keeping them running in circles.

  118. My boyfriend said women didn’t like his height either. He was surprised when he met me and I liked his height. He was also a virgin when I met him. We are now engaged and love each other. If you are happy with teenagers. By all means indulge yourself with teens.

  119. @ Sue
    Chances are, your boyfriend is over 30 years of age (till which he remained a virgin). Chances are, you were too when you dated him. Also, chances are, you’d already experienced a number of relationships before you dated him.
     
    And yes, I am happy with teenagers. A lot happier than having to be miserably single, frustrated and dependant on alcohol. Lots more happier than I could be, if I were to keep waiting for another 5 years and …

  120. Yes we are both over 30. He was surprised when he found out that I thought his virginity was really nice.
    When I was younger I would have thought it was strange. I learn alot in my years on this earth and I think his height and virginity are great. It’s sad when people don’t realize that you are special and unique. I saw it in him and I’m glad I did. He asked me to marry me and gave me a ring. I very happy with my “good guy”. He said he had to go threw alot of rejection and some really bad girlfriends (he never slept with them). But we found each other and were not letting go. He’s available to lend an hear If you ever desire.

  121. I just came across a teen nudes website my 49 year old boyfriend was looking at. Porn I don’t mind, but I have a ten year old daughter and he has a 19 year old daughter. He is also an elementary school teacher up to grade 8. Having been with him 2.5 years, finding this site on his i-touch (accidentally) makes me want to run for the hills. I am 40, look very young for my age and now feel wierded out by this discovery. I don’t think I can stay with him and feel secure in anyway

  122. @ Sue – “Yes we are both over 30. He was surprised when he found out that I thought his virginity was really nice.”

    Well, thats just as I guessed. In general, I’ve noticed that it is past their 30s that ‘nice guys’ or guys with a height ‘problems’ find mates. And usually with the same women who’d have outright rejected/overlooked them when in their twenties. It appears that once women reach their thirties, their biological stock starts ticking away and there is a rush to find a committed mate, settle down and have kids. And it is this period that women start to notice the same guys they overlooked earlier, and start to notice the good things about them that they ignored earlier. These guys after having been deprived for over one and a half decade, are quite ready for forget their past rejections and happy to oblige. Thats the general trend.
     
    In the course of dealing with patients during my resident years, I’ve learnt so much from their lives (and deaths) that I know I’m not going to let whats left of my life to fritter away just to be a part of some sad Darwinian game. Especially when I have it in my power today to turn this game in my favour.
     
    I will not become one of those ‘men of convienience’ for women who I know would have rejected me at present. I am not going to wait till I’m well into my thirties – to find love, companionship and sex. Also, I will NOT settle for ‘used goods’, if I’m ‘unused’ myself. Above all, I am not going to settle for *any* woman just because ‘she’ll have me’.
     
    I thank your boyfriend for his offer of lending an ear, but I believe time is already past when it would have been helpful.

  123. To Moi – I think you deserve better. I know it’s not easy but leaving him is what I would do. When a man has spent years masturbating and orgasm-ing to young girls on the internet He programs his body to feel strong lust towards them. It’s a super brainwashing technique. Something as pleasurable as orgasms would be hard to deprogram, especially years of doing this to himself. Aging is normal for men and women and neither sex should be considered discards when we are going through a normal aging process. Just because we are not teen does not mean we are promiscuous. Look at the actress Chelsea on the TV show 2 and a half men. I read shes in her 50s. In my opinion not many teens are as sexy as her. Why do alot of people worship the youth from 16 to 25 and then consider ourselves unattractive discards. We gain valuable qualities later in life and become deeper people. We can also look beautiful as long as we take care of ourselves. We should be able to feel proud of our worth and looks for more than a mere 9 years of our life.

  124. Sue; he has now explained to me that he rarely goes on these sites and was looking for natural looking girls like myself. He’s a great guy and wants to marry me. Intellectually I can take him at his word, I know he has never liked the typical fake breasted kind of girl with tons of makeup,etc. And he said he was trying to find a site he once saw with natural beauties. I consider myself very pretty and talented and I want to believe I’m included with these natural women he looked ( by the way, he said he was bored last week sick in bed and that’s why he looked) but walking in NYC today I felt less than every young beauty I saw while with him. He’s a good guy and maybe he is being honest, but I feel what I feel now- more insecure than before, and I can’t turn that off with all my best “thinking” . I know I’ve always had trust issues anyway, but this has shaken me more. I’m beginning to think all men are the same, they either want a young sex toy or a mother- or both, that’s why they turn to this sh*t- supplemental I guess. True we don’t have alot of privacy or free time, and I want to tell myself it’s nothing, like he says, but I can’t turn my feeling off. Maybe some guys are cool and maybe he’s one of them, but maybe I have too many trust issues to be with anyone.

  125. Sue; by the way he told me I’m a natural beauty likethe girls on that website. I just don’t know what to think about anything anymore.

  126. @ Sue – “Wow Thats cruel. I was trying to be nice. Good luck to you”

    Sometimes honesty is brutal. The world is cruel. Why run from reality under the garb of faked niceties? Thank you for trying to be nice, although you aren’t obliged to be. I’d rather appreciate brutal honesty from random people on the internet, instead of unhelpful niceties.
     
    I know what I said might not have be palatable with your 30+ sensibilities, as aging and looks are something entirely beyond one’s conscious control. But think it this way, it is best to be real and come to terms with ourselves (flaws and all), rather than living in a worlds of denial or blaming others. If I couldn’t come to terms with my height and used false consolation or blame game to pacify my frustration, I’d still have been single, virgin and probably worse in a lot many ways…
     

    @ Moi – “Maybe some guys are cool and maybe he’s one of them, but maybe I have too many trust issues to be with anyone.”

    Moi, don’t blame yourself, as the problem doesn’t appear to be entirely yours. A 49-year old man looking at teenage porn would be something of a concern, considering not only your insecurities, but the fact that you have a pre-teen daughter as well. That he is also a school teacher for grade-8 and younger students becomes a social concern as well. Perhaps both of you should see a marriage/relationship counsellor, to be able to sort things out. It *might* be true that he was just looking for ‘natural beauty’ when he came across these ‘teen porn’ but I wouldn’t bank too much on that.

  127. To the very SHORT MAN “Juan”
    I am a model and In my 30’s! I get jobs (mainly bikini)because I am not the typical teen looking girl. Every day some man stops me to tell me I’m beautiful. I am not with my boyfriend out of desperation as there are better looking and wealthier men who are so available to me. I like his morals, character and personality. A complete opposite of yourself.
    I felt bad for you as you are a VIRGIN at 25 years old !!!!!!
    and you are VERY SHORT. Alot of people will think of you as a LOSER WITH WOMEN!!!!. I had empathy and I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have. It was real and not fake. However at this point I do not like your personality and I think you are a hateful bitter cruel man and that’s women do not want you, not because your so short. If you have sex with that 17 year old girl you like, I pray you get arrested for the evil cruel perv that you are. I hope you will stop addressing me in this blog as I have no interest in addressing your comments since you repulse me. The reason you never score with female is because you are hostile cynical nasty and us gals don’t like that.

  128. Please excuse my spelling, and sentence structure as I feel quite emotional and did not check it before submitting

  129. @ Sue – “I am a model and In my 30’s! I get jobs (mainly bikini)because I am not the typical teen looking girl.”

    Right. (Explains the bitterness…)
     

    @ Sue – “I like his morals, character and personality. A complete opposite of yourself.”

    Well then, I’m happy for you. It would be quite silly for you to compare me with your boyfriend, since we’ve had completely different sets of experiences with life.
     

    @ Sue – “Alot of people will think of you as a LOSER WITH WOMEN!!!!”

    I admit that I was a loser with women in the past, for things beyond my control and for listening to consolations like the one you tried. After I stopped the idealist dilly-dallying, I stopped being the loser that I was.
     

    @ Sue – “..that’s women do not want you, not because your so short.”

    Actually a number of women who considered me a “close friend” did tell me that they’d have dated me if I were a little taller. That was way before I became a cynic. And the girls who showed interest in me did it because they thought I’m ‘cool’ (cool implies an element of personality, which would be made up of the same things you think women wouldn’t want about me). So your justification falls flat.
     

    @ Sue – “If you have sex with that 17 year old girl you like, I pray you get arrested for the evil cruel perv that you are.”

    I’m afraid your prayers have to go without frutition. She is above the age of consent and hence, completely legal. I am no more of an evil cruel perv going for who I’m attracted to, than women who reject/overlook men by height preferences.
     

    @ Sue – “I hope you will stop addressing me in this blog as I have no interest in addressing your comments since you repulse me.”

    I will respond if I feel like it. If you don’t want to, feel free not to.
     

    @ Sue – “The reason you never score with female is because you are hostile cynical nasty and us gals don’t like that.”

    Falls flat on its face. I started to score with females AFTER I became a realist (or a ‘hostile cynical nasty’, as you’d call it). Apparently, a lot of girls like that. Maybe if I started being so years earlier, I’d have fives or more years of success than I do now.
     

    @ Sue – “Please excuse my spelling, and sentence structure as I feel quite emotional and did not check it before submitting”

    No worries. I can understand your bitterness…

  130. JUAN THIS IS A QUOTE FROM YOU !!!!
    “””””I find that a lot of teenage girls in the 15-19 age range show sexual interest in me, so I’ve decided to go for them instead.””””””””””
    Don’t say you didn’t write that in the blog ! because it’s up there in your above comments.
    Juan (probably a fake name)you are very short AND HAVE THE MIND OF A PEDOPHILE

    Unless you are able to seduce one of the 15-19 age girls you say you decided to go for ! you will not be the “40 year old virgin but the 90 year old virgin”because you will never get an adult women to have sex with you.
    Your personality is even a bigger defect than your stumped height.
    I hope the 15-19 girls you say you will go for!!! stay away from you or eventually you will be arrested you sad, short, perverted little man because mature women don’t want you ugly little penis
    Go back to your barnyard. I am done answering you

  131. @ Sue – “…you are very short AND HAVE THE MIND OF A PEDOPHILE.”

    I am short, but not a paedophile. I am not sexually attracted to children. In any case, I started going for teenagers because they show sexual/dating interest in me, as opposed women my age see me either as a ‘good friend’ or a ‘little brother’.
     

    @ Sue – “Unless you are able to seduce one of the 15-19 age girls you say you decided to go for ! you will not be the “40 year old virgin but the 90 year old virgin.”

    Fortunately for me, I am no longer a virgin, so your wish would never come to a pass. In any case, I couldn’t have been a 40 or 90-year old virgin in any case, since chances of my living till the age of 40 are quite slim. I don’t think my liver is going to support me that long of a lifespan.
     

    @ Sue – “because you will never get an adult women to have sex with you.”

    I am at a point in life where I couldn’t care less. If I get adult women, well good. If not, I wouldn’t waste away the remaining part of my life frittering over it. Its all a win-win for me, if I were to die tomorrow, I’d have no regrets over it. If not, I wouldn’t have to live a decade longer in frustration.
     

    @ Sue – “Your personality is even a bigger defect than your stumped height.”

    People I know seem to think my personality is perfect. Thats all that matters to me.
     

    @ Sue – “I hope the 15-19 girls you say you will go for!!! stay away from you or eventually you will be arrested you sad, short, perverted little man…”

    Well, they didn’t because they aren’t as judgemental, short-fused and bitter as you seem to be.
     
    By the way, at least one thing you got right. Juan isn’t my real name, for reasons of privacy. I’d have given you gold medals for figuring it out, if it were not already that obvious (this being internet and all).

  132. I have been noticing an interesting sort of yin-yang element of the posts between Sue and Juan.

    These are just my interpretations and therefore are neither true or false but are just my observation of posts between you.

    At first, it seemed to me that Sue came across as friendly and helpful and Juan came across to me as jaded and cynical.

    Then suddenly the tables completely turned and Juan seemed much more tolerant and compassionate and Sue seemed completely intolerant and not at all compassionate.

    It seems as if you each are exact opposite but mirror images of each other. One is compassionate on the inside but cynical on the outside, the other compassionate on the outside but bitter and angry on the inside.

    Appearances really can be deceiving!

  133. Juan oh I mean kysha430 (new name eh?)
    I tried to be nice and got nothing but verbal abuse. I have a soft spot for people. I even let this cruel comments go until he wouldn’t stop addressing me with insults. I am not a masochist sorry to disappoint you

  134. @ Sue – “Juan oh I mean kysha430 (new name eh?)”

    Oh really? I guess when the mind of an aging 30-year old woman becomes extremely bitter, the faculties of distinguishing two different persons gets clouded. (How’s that for an insult?)
     

    Sue – “I tried to be nice and got nothing but verbal abuse.”

    Pray, enlighten me by pointing out a single instance of verbal abuse I’d used against you. (You sure you aren’t hallucinating things?)
     
    I was simply trying to put my case why I date teenagers, without being invasive or directly insulting. Looks like my general argument hit a personal nerve somewhere. In any case, if this is any example of the way life ‘damages’ women by the time they are 30, I am glad I didn’t wait too long…

  135. My apologies if my arguments hurt you in any way. I was just trying to justify my position, that’s all. I have no personal vendetta against you to be insulting you.

  136. I came home early from work yesterday, my husband did not know I was in the house. I opened our bedroom door (that was locked) and found my husband with his laptop in our bed looking at teenage girls dancing half naked and some pics they were masterbating. I have been through this 2 times before in our almost 12 yr marriage. Each time he has been so sorry and ashamed and feels genuinely sorry and regretful. This time I took a few shots at him with my fist and open hand…I almost couldn’t stop. I was shaking he was bleeding from his nose and scratched up pretty badly. I really don’t know if we will recovery from this one, he wants to go to a marriage councelor and church. He feels he has a problem, he had made it 9 months since the last time, and thinks that our finances and the fact that our oldest daughter recently went to jail has made things very stressful. I’m crying as I write this I’m just so sad we have gotten so close this year, we tookour first real without the kids vacation and I really thought all this was behinds us. He admitted that he looks maybe twice a week and does this when i am not there and he says he’s on for maybe 10 min sometimes 30. I guess my real concern here is that i am not enough for him and at 32 he is to old to look at these girls. I feel i could handle it somewhat better if they were not teenagers. When I say teenagers the site states their ages. Oldest being 19. Please let me know what the concensus is out there. Thank you

  137. Mr Tibbs, do yourself and your girlfriend a huge favor. Quit looking at porn. This tears your girlfriend apart, has made her feel totally undesirable BECAUSE you are looking at other women and masturbating over them. Seriously!!!! How do you think she’s going to feel? How would you feel if you walked in on her and saw her dripping over an image of gorgeous naked man on the computer???? Why do men not have a clue as to why porn can kill a relationship?

  138. Anna, I feel for you. I’ve been through the same thing recently with my husband of 20 years. I caught him for the first time about 9 months ago and since then he claims he’s been clean but the shock, the hurt, the humiliation I felt sent me into a rage. I’m still not over it and can’t get the images of what he was watching…TEENAGERS!!! He’s 50! If I could, I would leave, but I’m jobless, no where to go but if I had someplace, that would be it.

  139. Anna, it also seems that teen porn is out there full force these days. 30 years ago, they had Playboy and Penthouse, where the girls were at least 20 or over and looked mature enough but the teens in porn these days look like children and it’s scares the heck out of me that our husbands are watching this garbage. Most of the teens I saw in his “collection” were not even pretty, they only had young bodies. Yes, it makes us wives feel inadequate, but hey it made me feel inadequate when my boyfriend 30 years ago looked at porn and I was only 20 then. It’s just not something most women feel good about. My husband claims he’s not addicted and has started therapy with me and is going to church but I wonder if that’s not all just a smokescreen to earn my forgiveness. No evidence yet of a set back on his part but I still cannot get over it. This was only the first time I caught mine with porn but apparently he had hidden it well for at least six years from me. I would suggest you and your husband go to counseling and talk to a Pastor since you mentioned church. If your husband is addicted and admits he may have a problem that’s step one. Stay and try to get healing for him and yourself. His behavior is not normal. Husbands are to keep themselves for their wives, not for images of other women (or girls) in porn.

  140. Hi Anna,

    I have had this issue come up for me in the past. I think there are a few men out there who do not look at porn but there are probably no men out there who do not masterbate. A man’s imagination is filled with thousands more images than even the internet can hold, from probably all the way back to the stroller. Should we try to censor that too?

    I think there are men out there who would be willing to give up looking at the internet because it is upsetting to a partner but I think the majority of men will just try better ways to hide it.

    Perhaps you didn’t know you were choosing a man that looks at internet porn and had you known, you probably would have chosen a man that does not.

    We are all entitled free-will and we all get to choose what sort of person we want to be with. If you try to control him, he will continue to resist that attempt to be controlled, even secretly. And this will compound the problem even further and push him away from you even more.

    Perhaps your partner would be willing to try therapy. If not, I would just ignore it and have sex with him as often as possible.

  141. Thank you all for your responses. I feel better knowing that I am not the only women this has happened too, but still feel confused on how this has become such a big problem for our men? My husband is smart handsome and a wonderful father and provider. It just seems his profile doesn’t fit that wierdo image that I have always had of men that are all into porn and masterbating all the time. It is beyond me what has happened to him. Someone said get counceling or maybe church and that is what he has proposed for us as well. Im all for that but at the same time I feel its me and he is more attracted to these girls and just can’t get rid of me do to the fact we have an 11 yr old and he doesn’t want to leave him. Someone else suggested maybe ignore it and just have lots of sexwith him as often as possible. Well to that I can say I love having sex with my husband and offer it pretty much all the time. Evidently from what he says sex can be to much work and when he is tierd and I am at work it is easier to look at porn and masterbate than to wait for me and have sex. I must really suck at sex because he knows I would strip down the minute I get home and jump his bones. So you tell me? The sad thing is I seem to be what most men want and I know that sounds very vein but the truth is I have a good personality and have maintain very well and I’m always being told I look at least 10 years younger than my age. I guess if I was 17 again he would be wanting me all the time tired or not. Agree?

  142. I’m not sure this is directly relevant, but recently my father’s been looking at teenage pornography (he has no idea about Google’s search history, sadly). This has made me a little insecure and confused, because some of those girls (assuming they’re all legal) are just 3 or 4 years older than I am. Am I right to be upset about this, or should I accept it as normal? I don’t really feel threatened or anything like that, just… kind of let down in a weird way. Not sure how to explain it. Help?

  143. This is only my opinion and therefore to be taken with a grain of salt but I think frequent masturbation is caused by fear.

    Anxiety and the fear of intimacy can lead to a desire for easy, quick and pleasurable release. There is almost no work involved whatsoever, and no one else but oneself to please. The more titilating the picture, the more powerful, pleasurable and quick the release.

    It is a completely selfish act and, I believe, does not reflect on the quality or attractiveness of the partner. It’s seems to be about wanting a purely pleasurable release without having to do the work that true intimacy requires and not having to think about pleasing anyone else.

    I think it is a mistake to take it personally. It may be a reflection of a lack of willingness on his part to work on developing deeper intimacy and instead taking the easy way out in order to satisfy a basic urge and to relieve anxiety.

    Therapy can help to remove the blocks to true intimacy. Sex alone is not a substitute for intimacy and frequent masturbation may just be a way to avoid doing the work of finding a way to break through the fear and resistance patterns that get in the way of establishing the deeper sense of connectivity and relatedness which will ultimately help to relieve the anxiety.

    Frequent masturbation is only a temporary fix, and like any addiction, is just a vicious cycle that never addresses or heals the real underlying problems.

  144. Anna, I don’t agree with your last statement, that if you were 17 again he would be wanting you all the time. I think porn is just pure (forbidden) excitement and it releases chemicals in the brain just like a drug. Even if you were the most beautiful woman in the world, if your husband is drawn to porn he is going to do it. It has nothing to do with you or the way you look. I truly believe there is still a taboo about porn even though these days it’s everywhere. There is still the feeling (something in everyone’s conscience)that it’s supposed to be forbidden but the forbidden is always more exciting and that makes it more enticing. You’re not forbidden to him, you are his wife, but other women are forbidden and he knows it, (marital vows require him to be for you and you alone sexually),thus making it more exciting for him to be sexually stimulated by other women. Now with quick internet access to porn, there are all sorts of sexual perversions out there that men (or women) can get at their fingertips very easily. It seems to me that teen porn offers even more forbidden excitement because they are so young without actually crossing that pedophilic line.
    If a man cannot stop viewing porn at the request of his partner because it is causing relationship difficulties, then he is addicted and needs help. He is asking for help you said, so I would urge you to seek it with him, and also for your healing.

  145. To Skittles, is your father married? Maybe you should let your mother know if so. If you’re around the same age as the girls he’s looking at, I’d be concerned if I were you. Older men looking at teen porn is not normal.

  146. If a man cannot stop viewing porn at the request of his partner because it is causing relationship difficulties, then he is addicted and needs help. He is asking for help you said, so I would urge you to seek it with him, and also for your healing.

    Forgive me for not reading the entire thread here, but I noticed this while scanning up from the end.

    I want to point out the assumption that someone should cease all sexual activity that their partner finds objectionable. It can be a heavy thing to ask your partner that all of their sexual expression be confined to their you (and a terrible burden to be someone’s sole sexual outlet). I am not advocating open marriages or something similar.

    I can personally testify that marriages are threatened more by feeling ashamed of our sexual desires than by the mere act of viewing pornography. At one time I thought that I was addicted to pornography.

    I have to make this long story a short one, so… Once I accepted my sexual desires for what they are and realized that I could be a good (no, great!) husband and father, not in spite of who I am sexually, but because of it, once I accepted that, the addiction melted away.

    I still view pornography on occasion, but I am no longer ashamed. I love my wife. I love my daughters. I wear myself out trying to be my best for their sake. I often get compliments about how good I am with my daughters. I wouldn’t toot my own horn except to battle the assumption that a man with natural, healthy sexual desires is a threat to his marriage and family. Pornography is no real threat to them.

    The real enemy is shame. Sending messages of shame is a perfect recipe for turning healthy sexual desire into an addiction.

  147. To Johnathan…you excepted your sexuaul desires for what they are? And this makes you a better father and husband? Please explain.

  148. Anna,

    (Settle in because I have more time today so this will be much longer. I hope you don’t regret your question.)

    A perfect example comes from some advice I received from my mother before I married my wife. We followed her advice so that now, whenever one of us realizes that we are feeling attracted to someone else, we share that fact with each other. It seems that somehow we as a culture have this idea of love that says that once we are married, if our love is true, our hearts will never stray. This falsehood raises the bar impossibly high for us mortals who don’t live in a fairy tale.

    The first time I shared such an attraction with my wife wasn’t easy: I felt increasingly attracted to her sister. The attraction stewed in my mind, and I fretted over whether I should tell her. I finally decided to trust her and shared my secret attraction. All praise to her, she accepted my attraction for what it was and returned my trust.

    My mother had promised that if we practiced this openness, that the attraction would lose its steam. And it did. I still feel attracted to my wife’s sister, but it lacks the power it had when it was a secret attraction. My wife even kids me a little about it once in a while. Nothing like laughter to chase away demons.

    After years of putting my mother’s advice to the test, my wife feels free to share the excitement she felt when that cute bagger at the grocery store helped her out to the car and tried to flirt with her, and I complain to her about the days when a woman that I work closely with—who moonlights, I kid you not, as a bikini model—wears clothing designed to get my heterosexual male motors revving. (I confess that my complaints are half-hearted.) This sharing has inoculated us against these random attractions, and our intimacy grows each time we trust each other this way.

    So now my wife knows about my sexuality and accepts it. She knows that I find teenage girls’ bodies sexually attractive (if not their still-maturing personalities). She knows that I indulge in erotic materials on occasion. This causes no more trouble in our marriage—now that we’ve learned to trust each other—than if she read romance novels once in a while, or if I ate chocolate-chip mint ice cream in moderation.

    All that psychic energy that I used to spend worrying about getting caught with my hand in the cookie jar has been freed up to pursue more important goals, like being a loving husband and father. When I was ashamed and afraid, my sexuality dominated my life. When I tried to hide from my sexuality, to change it, I spent years in frustration, self-hatred, and shame. I am grateful that I decided to try a new strategy, one of acceptance and temperance. Now I have the emotional space to grow up a bit more. (It’s about time!)

    To those women who worry that men fantasize about teenagers, I say relax. We trust each other not to indulge our fantasies every day. For example, we trust each other with our lives when we drive. We trust that we won’t indulge our fantasy to run each other off the road in a fit of anger when one of us drives poorly, even though the thought of it can be very satisfying to entertain. Part of being an adult is learning to temper our fantasies with longer-term thinking. Fantasy rarely becomes reality. We realize that most such fantasies won’t lead us to where we truly want to go.

    I may fantasize once in a while about that physically mature sixteen-year-old I see in church or about my sister-in-law, but there is very little chance that I will ever follow up on those fantasies. They’re fun thoughts only if I ignore all the negative consequences to my wife, my family, the woman involved, etc. When it comes down to it, I just like thinking about it. I’m grown up enough to know that only bad things would come of acting on those thoughts. (Have you seen American Beauty? The protagonist’s relationship to the cheerleader is a good illustration of this point.)

    Anyway, I’m a better husband and father because I and my wife are aware of who I am sexually. We communicate about it. We trust my judgment, and that trust and acceptance (and humor!) chases away the fear and shame. That makes all the difference between the sexually addicted person I once was and the devoted husband and father I am now.

  149. To Johnathan, all I can say to your well meant insight is thank you but no thank you. What works at your house doesn’t work at mine. I will say that your mothers adivce is quite clever and believe that to be good sound advice. But for the rest of it what I’m hearing is how you have made your wife with her little harmless “the bagger guy was cute and ” the latest romance novel she read was a bit steamy” some how puts her on your playing field. I beg the difference. You sir still have some issues if you are checking out 16 yr old teen girls at the local church. And to compare it to fantasizing about running a bad driver off the road? Come on! Get over yourself, all I here is that you are happy as a Lark that your wife is aware of who YOU are sexually all sounds a bit narcissistic to me. And yes humor can be good for chasing away fear and shame and also old guys that get a woody for 16 yr old girls!

  150. To Jonathan Blake:

    If I say to my husband, boy I have this desire to hit you over the head daily, maybe twice a week and he says, “Boy that hurts honey”.
    “But dear, I say, if you let me do this maybe once a month, the desire to do that so much will diminish.” Husband says, but it’s still going to hurt when you do it.” Does that mean I should do it once a month and still hurt him, diminishing my desire to do it more often? No, if something I’m doing hurts my husband I have the responsibility to not do it at all.

    As for your wife tolerating your fantasies of her sister or the 16 year old “in your church” (WOW) then, your wife is pretty much out of touch with her true feelings. I would say it’s no wonder she finds flirtatious encounters with check out boys alluring. Perhaps you have diminished her feelings of desirability by desiring other women and she seeks verification of her sexual attractiveness elsewhere.

    I can tell you that before the discovery of my husband’s porn use, I could have cared less about men looking at me, and they do quite often. But now, I crave that attention, verifying my desirability, and sexual attractiveness because my husband took that away from me. With some of us women, our partners porn use makes us feel undesirable, as if we are not good enough. If that is what it makes us feel and a man is sensitive enough about it he will try to cease that activity.

    I just have to politely disagree with your morals on this one. I agree the more someone tells you not to do something, the more you may want to do it. It’s called rebellion and it’s in human nature. The process to maturity is to grow out of rebellion by self control which includes rebellious actions as well as rebellious thoughts.

  151. I find myself in substantial agreement with Jonathan on this one. I don’t think a woman has a right to interfere with her husbands use of porn anymore than a man has a right to interfere with his wife’s use of romance novels. It’s not that I so much like porn and romance novels, it’s that I like human freedom.

  152. Anna,

    That many older men find young women sexually attractive is a fact. The question is whether or not this is pathological or just part of human nature. That so many (seemingly?) healthy men experience this attraction (cf. the term “jail bait”) says to me that the attraction is not out of the ordinary.

    I realize that many of us (especially those who have been victimized in the past) are frightened of the thought that men (and women) harbor sexual feelings for adolescents. What I’m saying, for some, must sound like I want to leave adolescents unprotected from sexual predation, like I want license to practice my sexuality with impunity.

    However, I support protecting the weak from the sexual predations of the strong. I, like so many others, try my best to protect them from my own sexual attraction to them. The vast majority of these men and women would never consider victimizing the young people for whom they feel these attractions. I personally want them to be blissfully ignorant of any untoward feelings that I have. Let them enjoy their youth without my interference.

    But we can’t wish away human sexuality. It is what it is, and it dictates that many adults will be attracted, at some level, to young men and women, no matter how frightening or distasteful we think that is.

    What I hope is that we can all look at our response to sexuality—our own and that of others—and feel acceptance for the things we can’t control. I have no control over what sexual feelings I have. Trying to deny that those feelings exist or to push them away—to keep them closeted—simply makes it harder to manage them, at least from my own experience. Sooner or later, they’re going to find their way out of the closet, probably at a time and place that we’ll all truly regret.

    I have much more control over my actions and attitudes, especially when I am fully conscious of my feelings and don’t try to keep them in the closet.

    BTW, if pornography can be dangerous to a marriage (and it can) then romance novels can be as well. Pornography can encourage men to have unrealistic expectations about the anatomy and submissiveness of women and the lack of consequences to sex. Romance novels and movies can encourage women to have unrealistic expectations about how men treat them and about happily ever after. Both sets of unrealistic expectations may cause us to be dissatisfied with our flesh and blood partners. Neither is a graver threat to marriage as far as I can tell.

    But we’re adults who can tell the difference between fantasy and reality. While moderation is called for, utter abstinence from fantasy is unnecessary.

    Denise,

    Thank you for the suggestion about my wife seeking verification. I’ll have to talk with her about that and make sure that she knows that I find her attractive. I think she knows, but it never hurts to lay it on a little thicker. :)

    Let me suggest a modification to your hammer example. Let’s say an bulimic woman came to her partner and said “My diet has been unhealthy. From now on, I plan to eat three meals a day.” Her partner responds, “I hate it when you eat so much. You’ve been gaining weight, and I’m finding you less attractive.” Does the woman have a responsibility to give in to her partner’s demands so that she won’t hurt her partner’s feelings? Or should she try to improve her health while communicating with her partner about his feelings? In this example, both partners have unhealthy attitudes that need to be worked on.

    Going back to romance novels and movies, if my wife’s life was absorbed in them, would it be good for me to ask my wife to forgo all chick flicks and romance novels because I feel threatened by the leading men? Should she accept a life without The Notebook and Pride and Prejudice? Or should I work on my insecurity while she learns to moderate her time spent with Noah and Mr. Darcy?

    I realize that feelings can be raw on this issue, so please let me humbly suggest that if a woman finds her husband secretly viewing pornography, and she then assumes that her husband is depraved for being attracted to young women, that both need to make some changes. If both partners assume that his attraction to young women is the root of the problem, they will spend years—maybe even a lifetime—trying to fix something that isn’t broken.

    Been there. Done that. Hope to hell that others can be spared that pain and frustration.

    More than anything, I hope that people who find themselves in this situation can overcome their fear and shame about their true feelings and the feelings of their partners. I hope their partners will encourage them —every part of them—out into the daylight of love and acceptance. We all deserve as much.

  153. In my opinion, young people should be protected until they are the age of consent. Once they are of legal age, they have the right and freedom to choose their partners just like anyone else.

    It’s only been a couple hundred years or so since 13 and 14 year olds regularly married and had children, sometimes with older partners and did not always have a choice in this matter.

    Genetically, men are programmed to mate with the best chance for healthy off-spring. This desire is a genetic urge but people are free to make their own choices as long as they do not infringe upon a minor (which is the law) or someone else’s freedom.

    Ladies, if you do not want to be with a man who fantasizes about youth, look for one of the few who does not, that is your choice, good luck.

  154. Paul said: “I find myself in substantial agreement with Jonathan on this one. I don’t think a woman has a right to interfere with her husbands use of porn anymore than a man has a right to interfere with his wife’s use of romance novels. It’s not that I so much like porn and romance novels, it’s that I like human freedom.”

    Well Paul, what if a woman (before she was married to her husband) told him how porn made her feel and that she had been traumatized by it and he promised to never emotionally abuse her in that manner, and then years later he does exactly that to a large degree? It was my choice to marry a man who did not want to view porn, *having been married twice before to porn addicts in which porn led to more explicit sexual deviant behavior), yet the very thing I was promised by my current husband was violated. Was it not within my human freedom to marry a porn free man? Me thinks my freedom of choice rights were violated.

  155. Let me ask you a question Jonathan Blake, let’s say a grandfather is having sexual feelings for his granddaughter. Should be be able to express his sexual desires to someone, not acting on them of course, but is this morally proper? Where do you personally draw the line? Obviiously you being attracted underage girls is no problem for you and you feel no shame for that, feeling perfectly fine to express your sexual *freedom* for jail bait. You don’t even feel shame for being sexually attracted to a relative, your wife’s sister which is another moral taboo. Just where do you draw your moral line and where does your moral code come from?

  156. Denise,

    Regarding your experiences with your husband and ex-husbands, I’m sorry that you’ve been hurt. Are you and they part of a group that says that pornography is a sin and that pornography always leads to worse transgressions? I ask because that is my own background, and the story sounds very familiar. I’ve heard of a lot of wives feeling deeply threatened when they discover their husband’s use of pornography. (Or they say they would leave their husbands if they ever discovered that they viewed pornography.) They have been taught to believe that pornography use means that the marriage will be over unless it is stopped. That would make me feel threatened, too.

    This becomes especially troubling for the couple when the husband finds that he can’t stop feeling the desire to view pornography. The husband feels like a failure, like he should be able to overcome his desires, and the wife feels her marriage slipping away outside of her control.

    We can’t make a promise that we will never change as a person. We also can’t promise that we won’t be human beings. I naively made many promises to my wife early in our marriage with the assumption that I would stay basically the same. I’ve grown and changed and am no longer the same person who made those promises. I’ve had to break them. She’s changed, too. The most that we can promise each other is that we intend to stick together for the rest of our lives, whatever change may come.

    Regarding the grandfather example, I would hope that he would express those feelings to someone (obviously not his granddaughter) so that they wouldn’t fester and grow malignant. In this case, it would probably be preferable for him to speak with a mental health professional so that they could make sure his feelings didn’t get out of hand.

    Also, I think this is a case where fantasy is too dangerous. It would be too easy for things to get out of hand. So I concede that there is a line that we shouldn’t cross. However, feeling afraid or guilty won’t help us keep from crossing the line. I think the healthiest attitude to take is one of calm acceptance that our sexuality will be unruly, and confidence that we as adults can keep our actions within healthy bounds, as long as we don’t hide from the truth.

    If I thought it would be easy for me to act on a fantasy that would hurt me and my loved ones, I wouldn’t indulge that fantasy. But I would openly acknowledge the desire. Secret desires are dangerous.

    My morality—my motivation for trying to be compassionate, honest, and just—comes from who I am as a human being. I want to see everyone lead healthy, satisfying lives. That motivates me to act morally. There are other parts of me that work against my better nature. I accept them as a true reflect of who I am while trying to nourish my better nature.

  157. Just a clarification about my sense of morality. I don’t subscribe to the idea that thoughts and desires by themselves can be immoral. It’s only through our actions that we can hurt ourselves and others.

  158. You know a week ago when I found my husband in our room looking at online porn not only did I have a mental meltdown but my husband did too. He begged me for help. He cried unconsolably calling himself an idiot and loser. He begged me not to leave, when I reminded him of how far I thought we had come (since the last time this had happenend) he admitted that he had started back sometime in March. I desperately searched my memeory for a clue, “when would he have been doing this”? “do I not make myself available to him day and night”? But more than anything my questions always goes back to two things…What happened to the man that said he would never hurt me with this again? And “how do you confess to love someone and all the while you are looking for naked girls to get you aroused and then masterbate to thier images? And then when you are all done you get cleaned up, make sure the history is cleared on the computer, walk out of the bedroom, resume your daily functions, wait for your wife to come home and when she does you act the same way you did before she left. “whats for dinner babe? Did you get a redbox movie? Fast foward to later after dinner and movie Wife snuggles to husband reaching down for some intimate time and guess what “babe I’m tired. Lets wait till tomorrow night. Wife wants to know why? Shes thought about tonight all day even calling and suggesting it to her husband. Then wife feels guilty, he did have a hard day, remembering things he had said about his day at work. So OK tomorrow then. Husband promises it will be good tomorrow night, will have more energy… kisses wife, turns and starts snoring in 2 min. The point is I ONLY WANT MY HUSBAND and the thought that he wants others is a painful and has made me rethink everything I thought this man stood for. The person that I go to for comfort and understanding is a fraud. Thats hardest thing about all this is knowing hes not the man I thought he was.

  159. Anna, that sounds so familiar. That was my wife and I a few years ago. We went through similar pain. We believed that loving each other and having a strong marriage meant that I would never desire anyone else. That’s the message we get from all the love stories (and in our case, from our church), and we wanted our marriage to live up to that ideal.

    Then my human frailties asserted themselves. No matter how much I tried, no matter how much I loved my wife, I couldn’t stop feeling attracted to other women. I truly loved her and I felt attracted to other women. I felt like such a failure because I couldn’t make my feelings go away. I felt ashamed that I couldn’t keep from sinning again and again no matter how desperately I prayed for deliverance.

    She felt like I must not truly love her. She felt like I wasn’t attracted to her, like she didn’t measure up. She felt like our marriage must be ending.

    So, to protect our marriage, to keep from hurting her, to avoid her seeing how ashamed I felt, because I loved her and didn’t want to disappoint her, I hid my activities from her because that’s the only thing I seemed capable of controlling.

    Healing only began to happen when we started to rethink our assumptions about what love should look like. Some people may truly want only their spouse. Most of us, however, have to deal with stray feelings of desire for someone other than our spouse. My wife and I slowly let go of our assumption that attractions to other people were a sign of moral weakness, a sin, a sign that I didn’t love her. As we accepted the reality and let go of the fairy tale, our trust in each other deepened because I no longer felt it necessary to lie to her. We saw that attractions to other people weren’t strong enough to break our marriage. I feel more deeply loved now because I’ve seen her commitment to me through her willingness to reconsider who she wanted me to be, and to let go of the promises that I had naively made to her, the ones I had no power to keep.

    Our marriage has been tested and is stronger than ever, so I can happily report that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

    (Sorry for writing so much. Obviously, I feel passionately about this.)

  160. Anna, I was thinking about you and your story about an hour ago. The thought came to my mind that even though this is the third time you caught your husband, I bet this time was not the first time he relapsed and that he had been looking at it more than just the three times. Then I read this last post from you.

    I understand exactly how you feel. Your how could he do this, how could he act so “normal”, doing what he’s doing. In other words, how does he hide his guilt so well. I felt the same thing to. For six years I saw no indication besides sexual disinterest and tiredness. His personality didn’t change, he didn’t act guilty, he functioned daily as a normal, fun loving, pure and honest man with moral integrity. It’s like discovering you’re married to a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde personality. After my discovery last September I was convinced that this was not the man I married, and wondered if he ever existed. I feel so differently toward him now I can’t reconcile the way I thought he was to the way he actually turned out to be. I too feel I’ve been married to a fraud.

    Anna, reading some of the recent responses to your very understandably disturbed feelings about what’s taking place in your marriage, the last place for you to seek advice is from a blog such as this where there are men who see nothing wrong with what your husband is doing and promote moral depravity as some here have. You need to find a group of like-minded (women) who have been hurt as you have by your husband’s porn use and to seek counsel from them. There is healing but only if your husband is willing to heal himself. I would be more than happy to email with you if you need to find a place that can help you. My heart breaks for you because I KNOW exactly what you’re going through. I will give it a couple of days and see if you’d like to coorespond, if not I am wiping this blog from my bookmarks as I see very little comfort being given here for women who have been scorned by porn.

  161. Denise, your latest post makes me so sad. I can see that you’re very hurt that your husband isn’t the white knight in shining armor you imagined him to be. I’m willing to bet he still loves you. I guess I hope other people can benefit from my experiences, but maybe that’s a vain hope. Maybe they have to find their own way.

    Please, please, investigate Out of the Shadows and Don’t Call it Love. Both books helped me to understand my own addiction, and my wife’s budding co-dependence. And don’t worry: these books are compatible with your own sense of morality. Please.

    I wish you and your husband the best.

  162. Jonathan,

    I think you and your wife have a deeply loving relationship which is not based on attachment to an impossible ideal but is based on fearless love and acceptance of what is real between you.

    Attachment and rejection are both fear-based and contribute to addiction. Openness, receptivity and acceptance are expressions of unconditional love.

    Your wife made the brave decision to love the man that is sitting in front of her and not the man she wishes you were. By accepting you unconditionally, she helped you to break the cycle of addiction.

    She stepped up to be accountable for her half of the problem because she allowed you to stop lying to her by not insisting that you pretend to be someone you are not. By extending her faith and trust in you, even when there was “evidence” to the contrary she allowed you to find the person inside you who is worthy of that trust.

    Thank you for sharing. Your example is inspiring.

  163. To Denise, thank you for listening and reaching out. After reading my blog again I can see I am not getting any better and possible will never be able to look at my husband in the same way either. You know the first time this happenend I was absolutely devavstated. I remember thinking over and over that man I cherish and adore never really exsisted. But I began feeling that somehow it was my fault, he told me we weren’t happy and he had felt this way for sometime. What a shocker to be told when you think all is right in the world that you are not happy after all. So I convenced myself that we had not been happy maybe are marriage had been on auto pilot and maybe he is right I had let him down too. So I (I) bought some marriage help books and tried to get my husband involved in reading with me. He never read the book. I on the other hand did. And I began to heal, very slowly and saw the errors of my ways and began to change. My husband did as well (seemingly) we went on a vacation to the mountains without kids and it was very nice. We talked alot and did fun stuff and at the end I felt right as rain. And over the course of this year we have had other good times and not so good times but it seemed we were on a different kind of awareness than we were before, stronger if you will. Now flash foward to the present and here I am writting in this blog that I shouldn’t ever have to look at again, but here I am looking for some thread of understanding and advice. The bottom line here my husband betrayed me, and even though I am seemingly handleling it better this time I feel I am now forever changed because of it. In order for me to stay in this relationship I have to decide if I can endure. “Endure” not to get confused with understanding because that will never come, and not change because I’m not this time, but to actually endure facts about him that I now know. I guess only time will tell. Thank you so much Denise for coming out and sharing your own story with me as I know it is not easy we just want it to be a bad dream don’t we. God how I wish it was a dream and any minute I will wake up and see my husband laying there beside me so happy then to know all this was just a bad dream.

  164. kysha430,

    Thank you for understanding and for helping me to remember how awesome my wife is! I’ll have to tell her so.

    Anna,

    I regret if I haven’t been helpful to you. But it sounds like you can see deeper problems in your marriage, and I hope you can find help with those. Just a thought: the secret pornography viewing and the deceit are only a symptom rather than the root of the problems. If so, then focusing on curing the symptom leaves the real problems in the partners’ attitudes undealt with. That’s the mistake—a completely natural one—that I’ve seen a lot of wives make.

    All the best.

  165. If a room full of women, just on looks, picked 25% the women, who looked most likely to reproduce and raise children to maturity, they would probably pick the same segment of themselves as an equal number of men.

  166. I came across this blog and felt the need to respond, because this is something that troubles me too. First, to clarify, I am a woman (middle of the road in age). I’m actually okay with porn in itself. I can understand the male point of view of looking at it. I look at it too. But in a relationship, I want to feel like I fit the prototype of what my lover fetishizes (spelling?). It hurts when I feel like I don’t fit the mold of what fills his fantasies. I don’t expect him to fantasize about me specifically, but at least if I were his fantasy type, then I would feel more secure. It partially makes me wonder if maybe I’m just a temporary fill-in until something better comes along, and it also makes me feel some internal turmoil, because it plays off of the things that I cannot change. I have an athletic and fit figure, but I’m not the tiny little 98 pound doll with a petite frame and big doe eyes either. It would all make more sense if more of the men who seem to choose this dissonance, wouldn’t try to get women emotionally involved, when they secretly desire something else.

  167. I think this gets back to the idea we can’t be everything sexually to our partner. It seems to me that the expectation that our only desire should be for our partner (or for someone like our partner) is on par with expecting you’ll live happily ever after once you drive off in the wedding carriage, i.e. both ignore how messy human life is.

    Before I was married, I was attracted to brunettes (like my wife), blondes, redheads, etc. Was a switch supposed to flip in my brain to make me only attracted to brunettes once I committed to my future wife? Because if it was, it didn’t happen. My wife can’t be all those things for me, but I don’t want her to be. I married her, I want her to be her so that I can spend my life with her, not all those other women whom I feel an attraction for. Her body—the body that bore our children and has the scars to prove it—is the body of my best friend, and that’s something those other women can’t compete with.

  168. Acceptance of the desire is not the same as acceptance of the behavior.

    All suffering comes from non-acceptance of facts.

    I think some people would rather not know certain facts because they feel compelled to react to them.

    We all have the freedom to choose our internal reactions when facing facts. Some just haven’t developed this capacity.

  169. A lot of the time with a husband when they are getting older and there wife is to. they will still be attracted to there spouse cause they still see them as the attractive 20 year old, etc. That they married.

  170. I have just read the 200 replies to the question of FEMALE BEAUTY IN THE CONTEXT OF AGE. And there are two considerations: that having to do with biology (evolution) and that having to do with culture. The consensus among most writers on this blog is that the evolutionary explanation is the most important. But that is only true in a narrow sense. It is true only to the extent that we are all still cavemen and cavegals. But we are not. And I think that gives us all hope that we are all capable of overcoming the limitations imposed on us by biology, that we can all transcend our basic animalistic nature.

    Specifically for those who think that youth is the be-all and end-all, especially with respect to women — I can proudly say that as a recovering youth-admirer, I have learned that youth offers little to the relationship equation.

    Young women used to appeal to me, but that was mainly because I was not in any relationship. I have since fallen in love with a woman over 35 who blows all the teens away, and not just because she has substantial depth and intelligence (what is lacking in the teen mind).

    My girlfriend has a modeling website, and I will leave that site with you so that you can compare her with any teen on your radar screen. Her web address is “YourPhotoModel.com” You will see her in some very sexy poses, but no nudity.

    Bruce

  171. I want to thank you Bruce for sharing your thoughts on this most controversial topic. One that causes pain for alot of us women, especially with some very very imature and insensitive thoughts from the men bloggers out there.I think your lady’s photos are gorgeous and you are a very lucky man. I wish more guys had your outlook on this subject and could see how their desires for our young girls are not conducive for a happy , trusting and loving relationship with thier partner, but rather an unhappy, distrustful and painful relaltionship that in time will enevitably ruin a couples life together and possible future relationships as well. Thanks!

  172. Anna, you may have nailed my words with “insensitive”, and “imature” (sic) is debatable, but let’s be honest. No one on this blog or any other knows enough to judge the relationships of others nor to predict their ultimate doom. Aside from feelings and hunches, no one really has evidence that stray sexual desires will “inevitably” ruin lives.

    Isn’t it ironic that someone who posts sexually provocative pictures of his girlfriend gets kudos instead of predictions of the failure of his relationship? Which sexual appetite is more dangerous and needs to be quashed more: the desire for younger women, or the desire to have other men lust after your partner? (My answer, incidentally, is neither.)

  173. Dear Anna:

    Thank you for your kind comments.

    And thank you for you comments about my girlfriend. I also think she is gorgeous. She’s not only attractive outside, but she also has a good soul. I was never trying to exploit my girlfriend by displaying her website and photos; I was just trying to show men that they have age-appropriate options.

    Anna: My heart goes out to you and may God bless you.

    Bruce

  174. I’m a man. I look at teen nudity because it satisfy me in some way. We say, there are three level of sex. First, eye sex, second touch sex and finally real sex. So, we see nudity (especially teen) for eye sex.

  175. Hi,
    This is interesting. I just wanted to say, I’m a thirty three year old man. I do see girls that are young that turn me on purely in a visual sense. It’s not all only some. In fact i see girls and women of all ages that turn me on. It doesn’t have much to do with their ages as much as it has to do with them as individuals. There are many factors about different women that turn me on. That said, to answer the initial question; for me the allure of looking at girls that are “teens” on the internet is more to do with being attracted to to a certain body type. I don’t like fake breasts or big parts much at all. So when I look at “teens” it’s because I am looking for that body type. Would I like to date someone that was in highschool? most likely not. But is that because society says it’s wrong and criminal or is that because something in me wants someone to relate to in a relationship? I think pedophilia and exploitation is wholeheartedly wrong. But if an 18 year old girl came on to me and I was interested I may hook up with her. If a seventeen year old girl came on to me I most likely wouldn’t follow through on that because of the legal implications. Now as far as relationships of course I want a woman that I can get along with and grow with. The age is mostly irrelevant though I find that in general girls under twenty five are not for me. Looking at pictures is a way of fulfilling a need to fantasy that in reality won’t happen.

  176. I used to buy into the biological explanation for the way men and women behave, but I and many, many others I know – mainly women – have grown well beyond those biological drives. To argue for biology is saying that people cannot change, evolve and grow – that they are lacking a quality that makes them human. For the most part, I think men are highly insecure and though they may be attracted to teenage girls it is because these are children who have not, for the most part, learned to be mature individuals. It must be a terribly painful thing to be a man in our culture.

  177. Debbie, I don’t think it’s strictly possible to grow beyond biology (unless you have some way to download your consciousness to a non-biological body). :)

    Have you considered whether your biological drives didn’t go away. Instead perhaps they just changed, and now you’re just as trapped as men because your biology dictates that you are attracted to older men?

    I think I know what you mean though: men who are attracted to young women still need to grow up. It seems to me that many of the women commenting here stopped being attracted to young men at some point in their lives. Now, they expect men their age to do the same even though heterosexual men and women are different, especially when it comes to whom they are sexually attracted to. If they come across someone who is attracted to young women and is honest enough to admit this attraction, they project their own experience onto the men and think they must be stuck in childhood.

    Also, what about those of us who are attracted to women along a wide age range? Last night at a wedding reception, I saw a lot of beautiful women.
    Some were much younger than I, just coming into their adult beauty, full of health and vitality with geometrically simple bodies (if you get my meaning). Some were much older (with children only a few years younger than I) possessing their full adult beauty and the experience and maturity that would be a prerequisite for me to consider a entering a relationship if I weren’t already committed.

    The thing that bothers me the most about this conversation is the refusal to entertain the idea that some healthy, mature males may still be (sexually) attracted to young (teenage) women. It seems like a confusion of what you wish men to be with what they really are.

    And Debbie, my frustration isn’t really directed at you.

  178. Because teenage girls are supposedly easy to take advantage of, fool. Not any of that reproductive crackpot bullshit.

  179. It’s quite simple. We are here for one reason, for procreating. Unfortunately, men and women have become an island of him/herself. We have forgoten what we are here for. It’s typical, meaning NORMAL, for a male to choose a healthier, more attractive mate. If that means younger, so be it. People who say that being attacted to a much younger mate would be perverse and unethical, even under the legal age, which I would say is a Human Law, not God’s Law, would most likely say the same thing about Masterbation or Homosexaulality, although Homosexualality is not condoned in the Bible. I also love the way people choose one evil to cheer for and one fight against. We all want to support and cheer on the Gay guy but single out and scrutinize the guy or girl who is attracted to the younger type. Also, I’m sure most will agree with me. A person has no chose on who he or she is or isn’t attracted to, at least in a external sense. The only crime that the person can commit is the crime of invasion, meaning invasion of privacy and confirt. I think a person should have a chose of what he or she views as attractive. As long as they are not victomizing people for the persute of their pleasures, then In my opinion, they haven’t broken any laws or to put it better, committed any crimes.

  180. @ David: Is there a contradiction between saying, on the one hand, that we are attracted to the fittest mates, and saying, on the other hand, that we are attracted to especially young mates? I would think a girl of 16 much less fit as a mate than a woman of 26.

  181. In my humble opinion the attraction of men of any age to adolescent girls is very common. I think it should be treated like anything else that might enter our minds if we know it is morally wrong it is not good to entertain the attraction or act on it .We are all prone to sin. Some of the men here have made some wonderful points especially Johnathan Blake. I think I am right to say though that having an attraction to younger healthy beautiful women might be out of your control and normal and many men point out you can’t help what you are attracted to and as long as you don’t act on it it is ok to admire. I can see that totally and agree. BUT…when you take the step from simple acknowledgment of your attraction to them and actually look up young women to look at their naked bodies that is an action and you do have control over that.You are feeding your desire for them. There is a huge difference between simply finding someone attractive and masturbating to their naked body the latter being an action and a conscious choice. If you are married and made promises the latter will be a willful act of hurt and betrayal tword your spouse. The point that so many of the men and some women posting here have made about biology and ideal reproductive years being the reason for such attractions can easily be dissolved if you simply look up the facts on gynecology.It is a fact that teen girls are still growing and many well into their twenties. An infant requires food stores for at least a year this is simply not available in a growing child/teen who is not yet an adult. Although a young women can start menstruating very young I have read a lot of medical literature that will tell you a girls cycles take years sometimes ten years to regulate to a healthy pattern a disruption of this by sexual activity or child birth can and does cause permanent changes to cervical cells that can lead to cancer and other health problems for a young woman.Premature babies and babies with birth defects are common in under aged mothers because they lack the nutrients the baby needs to grow because they themselves are still growing. Here is an example to help you see why a girl may bleed but her body not be ready for children. Some machines can have all their parts and look ready to go but without proper calibration they will not function properly and will produce poorly in the long run. If you have any questions about where I got these ideas simply Google your own questions and I am sure you will find facts. So NO a teen girl is not the prime candidate for reproduction! The most fertile years are the early to mid twenties for a woman. Everyone here can bend and twist everything said to their advantage but there is one fact that cannot be argued and that is that any person who is not finished developing is not yet an ADULT! Attractions cannot be helped but they can be stopped at just an attraction. The men here are just trying to justify something that they know is wrong. Murder is also very common does that mean it’s ok to go ahead and do it? It’s like any other bad thing that enters our mind we just have to try our best to not entertain it and never act on it. For those who brought up the bible the bible does address this issue saying that people should wait to marry until after the bloom of youth.That includes sex. Also the bible says that if you continue to look at a woman as to have a desire for her you have already committed adultery in your heart. The women on here who are backing this are deluded. God many many times in the bible tells us that he hates this kind of behavior. He tells men to view unmarried women as their sisters with chasteness. So this is to all the women who come across this page wondering if there is something wrong with you. NO! This is not the way our creator intended things to be. Your unwillingness to accept this behavior is normal and justified.My husband looks at teen porn. I hate it but I have accepted I cannot change him. So I focus on myself and being as loving and supportive of my marriage as I can be. I chose to stay despite his bad choices because I love him without condition. In this wicked world we must all face challenges and this lust for many many if not all men is one of those challenges. I can say for certain that making excuses and throwing your hands up in defeat and just accepting that you are doing something wrong is a no win in the end. If you feed that fire enough it will burn out of control.

  182. Sue G.,

    Thank you for your kind words.

    All I can say is that being ashamed of a desire or trying to push it out of our mind only adds fuel to the fire. (Don’t think about Abraham Lincoln!) I might be repeating myself, but it’s similar to the psychological damage done when homosexuals try to deny their own desires. I agree that there’s a behavioral line to be drawn, but I suspect that it varies by individual though the rights of other people must be inviolate.

  183. I think men should consider the consequence to themselves when viewing teen porn. When finished if you do not feel sad, withdrawn, sneeky, embarrassed, ashamed, perverted, then you haven’t got a conscience. I would like to know who out there can be honest and say they are able to view these girls without at least one of these feelings.

  184. I think we’ve been loose about the definition of “teen”. Virtually all of the “teen” porn out there involves adults in the 18-19 age range if the marketers are being honest (hah!) or whoever looks young if they’re not. In any case, almost all “teen” porn involves adults, otherwise it would be illegal.

    If someone is looking at porn involving underage actors, that’s a problem (a problem that can be dealt with compassionately, but a problem).

    With the stipulation that we’re talking about “teen” porn involving adults, then I will raise my hand and say that I don’t feel sad, sneaky, embarrassed, ashamed, or perverted simply for viewing “teen” porn. I find some of it distasteful and disrespectful, but that’s not a general rule. Some of it is quite respectful and I feel no qualms about viewing it.

    I think it depends on what your conscience has been trained to react to. For example, a woman in a Muslim country may be mortified to show more than her eyes to a man who is not her husband or part of her immediate family. Compare that to women in the West who brazenly flaunt 50% of their naked flesh on routine trips to the grocery store. Can Muslim women tell Western women that they have no conscience because they doesn’t feel ashamed for wearing shorts and a tank top?

    • @Jonathan Blake, I’ve just got to say after reading your comments that you go above and beyond to justify your behavior without ever seeming to truly acknowledge how your behavior affects, or has affected, your wife and possibly even your children. Do you ever consider what effect your behavior would have on your daughters if they knew their father objectifies women and thinks this is an acceptable way for men to behave?

      Take for instance, the article you link to which suggests that male porn viewing has a negligible effect on men, when there is a dearth of evidence (by way of research) to the contrary. But even aside from the data, have you noticed that the majority of women who have responded here have said that they don’t think their partner’s porn watching and other objectifying behavior is acceptable to them in a healthy, loving relationship?

      You sound like a sex addict who is still in denial; someone who has changed their ways just enough for their partner to remain with them, but not enough to look in the mirror and realize that they still believe it is perfectly acceptable to objectify women (have you read the scientific data that suggests that staring at a woman for more than three seconds is objectifying, enough to re-start a sex addict’s sobriety meter?). Or you are just incredibly entitled.

      Please just stop with the bullshit “argument” that “all men do it” and if women would just accept that “this is how men are”, then they would live happier, healthier lives. All men don’t watch porn. All men don’t think it’s acceptable to attend weddings with their wives and drool over barely legal females with brains that are not even fully developed. All men don’t think that women debasing themselves in front of cameras or being sexually objectified is a turn-on.

      It may be unfair to expect our partner to stop all behavior that bothers us, but when it comes to porn or to ogling other women, if one’s partner is not okay with it and does not think they can be okay with it, and if their partner refuses to stop, then they weren’t meant to be together. Their values simply do not align.

      This kind of behavior, like it or not, has consequences, not just immediate ones to the people we care most about, but to larger societal views towards women and their roles vis-vis men. I think this gets overlooked so much by the men who justify porn as something that is innocuous and “natural”. If men think porn is totally okay, and particularly teen porn — porn created by men for men with the male gaze in mind, porn that makes women look like little more than depositories for men’s penises — what kind of message does that send to the younger generations out there who are learning about “relationships” via the internet? It tells young men that women should be enhanced, shaved, subservient, etc. It tells young women that it’s perfectly acceptable — nay, expected — for them to be sexually objectified, to demean themselves, to value themselves based on their sexual appeal alone.

      Personally, I do not want my daughter growing up knowing that her father objectifies women, and thinking that that is okay. Thinking that her self worth is contingent on whether she can attract men’s sexual attention, hey, because “men are men!” She will have enough to deal with in life aside from that. But if my porn watching / staring at other women was hurting my partner in an otherwise strong, healthy relationship, then you can sure as hell bet that I would stop it. Because that’s what healthy relationships — as compared to deluded ones — are about: mutual respect.

      • Jesse, you’d probably be surprised to find out that I worry about how porn is changing what we expect from relationships, too. Plus, remember that it’s been two years since some of my posts. My views have been evolving with time.

        One thing that I’ve noticed here is that the people who comment are probably the most affected by porn. Many of the women who find their way here have some personal trauma that led them here. What we’re not seeing are the women who have had a positive experience with porn and enjoy it themselves. Which leads me to another point.

        This thread has become a place to dump on men for not being who women want them to be. Porn is a supposedly male problem with men objectifying women. What we seem to forget is that many adult women participate in porn of their own free will. There is a lot of porn produced by people who enjoy the idea of other people being aroused by pictures of them, so called amateur porn. Some folks here want to make women the victims of a man’s “objectifying” gaze. The irony is that some women want men to react that way.

        So we have, in essence, women telling other women that they shouldn’t want what they want. This is a big debate within feminism these days. Are porn actresses victims of a patriarchal society, or are they liberated from patriarchal notions of what feminine sexuality should be (i.e. demure, monogamous, and moderate)? By assuming that porn actresses are victims, are some feminists just another tool of the repression of women’s freedom?

        Maybe you’ll continue assuming that I’m addicted to porn, but that doesn’t change my lived experience. Changing my attitude toward porn has had a positive effect on my marriage. When I thought porn was evil and sinful, I had a lot of anxiety about it and a lot of self-hatred. There’s no way to avoid those toxic emotions spilling over into your marriage. Now, we enjoy can enjoy our sexuality for what it is rather than what other people told us it should be. Our sex life is much more relaxed and fun because of that change in attitude. We save the anxiety for more important things.

        For my daughters, I hope that they can grow up with a healthy attitude toward their own sexuality and the sexuality of their potential mates. I hope they find thoughtful, caring partners with a healthy sexuality. I don’t think that excludes the vast majority of men and women who have seen and enjoyed porn at some time in their lives.

        Sorry if that doesn’t fit your current worldview.

  185. When we were children we learned about the world through our elders and past generations through thier elders and so on. As adults we are obligated to provide and educate our young people. If we as adults showed better moral abilities and refrained from viewing these morally unexceptable websites our teens would not have a place to post or view explicit images of themselves. Teens posing on these sites are looking for attention, and we as the adults have basicly instructed them that this is how to get it. So when you look at these girls next time look around alittle bit, do you see the stuffed animals on her bed, do you see that pretty comforter she’s laying on? Guess who bought her those things… mom and dad did, you know the people down stairs oblivious to whats going on in their daughter’s room.

  186. Anna, you and I are thinking of different kinds of teen porn. I’m thinking of the commercial product (which involves adults). You seem to be thinking of the amateur webcam phenomenon (which may sometimes involve underage girls). Despite the sensationalist news coverage, the latter is not as rampant as you may imagine.

    If you learn that someone is looking at teen porn, please avoid assuming that it’s an underage girl seeking attention through her webcam. Chances are, it’s not. Chances are that it’s an adult paid to perform by a production company. There are exceptions, but you can’t tell for sure from the “teen porn” name.

    It’s an understandable mistake given that you personally avoid these materials, but your unfamiliarity may lead to misunderstanding.

  187. Thank you Paul for an interesting thread and subject. Indulgence in what we think makes us happy may bring more suffering then practicing self control and restraint in the long run. It is my personal opinion that there are very few true homosexuals “born that way”. In my experience the majority of homosexuals are sex addicts who have been sexually abused as children. The reason that is significant is because a lot of adults who were abused as kids will repeat the actions on themselves that their abusers acted upon them even though it causes them pain and sadness. As human beings with reason we must think first about the effects that or actions will have on ourselves as well as those we love. When I was a young teen I lived with a gay man who owned a popular club in San Antonio. I got to see a very dark side of the way a lot of homosexuals live. They have places that they call trade spots throughout cities usually near a park or club were they meet up and trade partners all night long. It is not unusual for one man to have sex with over 4 partners a night. I think my ex husband said it best when he said,” gay men are really just lazy men who like to have sex but don’t want to put up with the hangups of a woman.” This type of promiscuity is very damaging and can be deadly. my point is if you find that something you are doing is hurting people you profess to love or yourself and you continue to do it anyway then you are putting your desires first and that is more unhealthy and damaging then practicing some self control. So with out dictating our actions with moral conscience then the desires and whims of the individual rule.With so many serial killers and sexual predators that is a scary thought indeed. Denying your own desires is self discipline and I have never known that to be damaging. I think it is unhealthy when we expect to much of ourselves and beat ourselves up when we are less then perfect. All we can do is try right? We can never be perfect. But we shouldn’t get a pat on the back for continuing hurtful behavior.

  188. Sue G.,

    Yikes! In one comment you’ve lumped viewing teen nudity, homosexuality, sexual abuse, sexual promiscuity, laziness, serial killers, and sexual predators in one big, messy lump.

    Self-discipline has its limits. Not every urge should be curbed for the sake of loved ones. Take my example above of the bulimic woman and the man who loves her only when she’s skin and bones. The woman is under no obligation to malnourish herself through excessive self discipline in order to avoid hurting her partner.

    I hope we can agree that if a person’s partner has dysfunctional attitudes that the person should not make themselves unhealthy in order to accommodate to that dysfunction.

    If we can agree to that, the question becomes whether insisting that a spouse seek out sexual stimulation only with their partner is dysfunctional. My view is that it is if for no other reason than that spouses have different levels of sexual desire.

    If he wants sexual intimacy five times per week, and she barely manages interest once per month, that’s an unhealthy situation. This can be the cause of suffering and divorce if the high-desire spouse has no other sexual outlet. Taken with an accepting attitude, masturbation/pornography can be a relatively harmless way to defuse the situation.

    And no one has to blame the husband for being perverted for having a strong libido or being stimulated by the sight of young women (or old women, overweight, skinny, short, tall, dark, light, etc.) or blame the wife for lacking desire. We just accept who we are as human beings, quirky sexuality and all, and learn to find a win-win way to deal with life.

    Why do we insist on blaming, shaming, and hurting each other?

    BTW, with all due respect to your personal experience, if I have to choose between your uncorroborated, unscientific views about the causes of homosexuality and the consensus views of the scientific community based on actual research, I hope you’ll understand that your opinions carry little weight on this question. It’s a scientific question with ample research. There’s no excuse for relying on anecdotal evidence.

  189. Sue G: I don’t want to drag this conversation off topic, but I have to say that it’s my impression most of the science done on the causes of homosexuality contradicts your understanding of the subject. I find it difficult to believe your claims about why and how people become homosexual are at all accurate. If the issue actually concerns you enough that you want to be right about it, then I’m sure you will want to read the scientific literature on the subject.

  190. So are you saying that viewing only adults web sites are morally o.k.? Are you saying as long as you pay a monthly fee and it states in the fine print that the teens you view are 18 yrs old that they are in fact 18? Wow what a magical number all of a sudden your 18 and you have a forsaken all your adolescent needs and have waken into adult hood in a snap. As some might venture into the world of adult living many others even if away at school still have their hands out for cash and look towards the parents for security and protection. So when you see what seems to be an adult you are only seeing what you desire to see.

  191. True, and when you see a helpless child, you are seeing what you want to see.

    The 18-year-old age of majority is arbitrary, but what is the alternative? We could raise the bar to 21 (or 25, or 65) years old but still end up with some emotionally immature people treated as adults. And a few people are ready for adulthood years before they turn 18.

    Should we go so far as to have psychologists and accountants duly certify that a person is an independent adult before they get the opportunity to make poor decisions for themselves? The law has to cut the apron strings somehow, and an arbitrary age of majority seems to be the best compromise.

    You may find viewing adult pornography immoral, but do you at least see it as less objectionable than viewing nude minors? If someone were seeking out pornography involving twelve-year-olds for the purpose of sexual gratification, would you be equally, more, or less concerned than if they were seeking out eighteen-year-olds?

    My view on the morality of pornography is that as long as no one (including third parties) was coerced or hurt, as long as it was freely given and freely received (i.e. free as in freedom), any act between adults is moral.

  192. I hope your scientific explanations for homosexuality aren’t from the same source that tells you that young teens are the most fertile and at their reproductive prime. Please note above that when I gave my opinion about the causes of homosexuality I clearly stated that it was just that an opinion….not based on fact. Johnathan Blake I wonder if someday you will eat your words when somebody you trust hurts you in the name of self indulgence.

  193. Sue G: Please be so good as to quote where I said “young teens” are the most fertile and in their reproductive prime. I only recall having said something to the effect that twenty-somethings are in their reproductive prime.

  194. You know what? Please disregard my above comment. I’m going to stop my judgmental replies. Sometimes these passionate subjects can make me a little hot headed. I apologize Johnathan Blake for the jabs I have taken at you. When I first read your posts I was very impressed with your honesty on the subject and that hasn’t changed. I think it is wonderful that you are open and honest and found a way to make your situation more healthy. My opinions are from a bible based view mostly and I am aware that many people do not agree with those views. I stand firm on my belief that we benefit from self control but what it really comes down to is that I think you are right also in that honesty and being realistic are very healthy and important.Can you tell me please how has your wife accepted your looking at other women naked regularly for pleasure? I am asking for my own benefit since my husband also views pornography and it troubles me greatly. I don’t give him grief for it but it causes me a lot of pain. I have told him in many conversations that it hurts my feelings but it hasn’t changed anything so I just keep it to myself now and have for quite sometime. I don’t know other’s situations here but my husband and I have daily great sex, sometimes three and four times a day. I am 33 but have a very young looking body. I don’t look very different from the teen women he likes to view. So why then I wonder does he still need it? Variety is my best guess.

  195. Sorry for the delay. I got buried under work for a while.

    I can’t speak for my wife, but she has expressed to me that she’s OK with my viewing pornography occasionally. However, I think we may be a special case. Not only is she an incredibly strong and loving person, but we’ve worked hard to be open to our humanity with each other. I don’t mean to say that we’re better than other people because we’re not.

    It’s just that from my perspective on the outside of other relationships, most seem to hold as taboo the discussion of stray attractions outside of the relationship. It’s as if they’re afraid that talking about it will damage the relationship, encourage the attraction, or make the attraction more real. At its root, I think we’ve become afraid of our sexual attractions outside of our committed relationships.

    Openly expressing our attractions to other people has actually strengthened our relationship because we know that we’re not keeping this kind of thing secret from each other, and we trust each other to accept and love who we are, not some idealized, romanticized caricature of what it means to be husband and wife.

    So she doesn’t feel threatened when I occasionally, recreationally view porn, and I don’t take her crush on Christian Bale personally.

    I’ve been thinking that porn is like junk food. It’s unhealthy if it’s our entire diet, but an occasional indulgence isn’t going to destroy us. So heaping guilt on ourselves for indulging occasionally is an irrational, unhealthy, unproductive response that can lead to eating disorders. Maybe we eat too much or starve ourselves instead. Whether we can indulge healthily depends largely on our attitudes and the attitudes of those around us.

    How we feel about nudity or porn says a lot about us: what we fear, what we desire, how we were raised, what we think relationships should be, etc. It’s a mirror that brings out hidden insecurities.

    If persistent problems in someone’s marriage seem to swirl around porn, I hope they can find competent professional help to see why porn has become more than a relatively harmless indulgence within the context of a healthy sexual relationship.

  196. Well, this debate has certainly offered up lots of views.

    It seems to me we all admire beauty, it doesn’t seem to have a great deal to do with age.

    As a male, I’ll look at any member of the opposite sex who’s attractiveness is such it catches my eye, but my first instinct is to determine age to ascertain how I’ll enjoy that particular beauty.

    For example, I can look at a very young girl who is obviously beautiful and think to myself, she’s going to be a very attractive girl when she gets older.

    I can also look at an adult female who is equally eye catching and view her in a sexual way. I don’t think men go for any particular adult age, but I’m sure they go for attractiveness which leads to all the other reasons they’re attracted to females.

    Besides the air brushed and silicone filled Barbie Doll types, which I personally find grotesque, It’s my view that any female faultlessly perfect, is going to be more attractive to the majority of us shallow and superficial types, than a girl who has some kind of imperfection.

    Now before I get jumped all over, everyone sees beauty in different ways, so in my world, where an ugly old bugger like me only pervs on perfection, there will equally be those who haven’t had their expectations of the female looks and figure corrupted by the media and advertising world, who will appreciate different things altogether about the natural woman.

    They say there’s someone for everyone, it’s just that some of us wish we had what it takes to attract those we prefer, rather than settle for whatever we have to, or miss out.

    I think those with open minds will be able to figure out what I’ve been trying to say, and I’d ask you when you do figure it out, to please let me know, so I’ll know what I was trying to say as well, lol.

  197. I’ve just seen I’m off subject, I got side tracked reading the comments and didn’t remember this was about “why men look at teen nudity”.

    First of all, there’s not a lot of “TEEN” nudity on the Net, most of those sites have “younger looking girls”, but very few of them are teens, and if they are, they’re 8teen or 9teen, hardly children.

    I personally look at younger looking women, just as I prefer to look at any kind of perfect looking, younger and more beautiful things.

    For example, would I look at a beat up old car, or would I look at a great looking new one?

    We all enjoy beauty and perfection in all it’s forms, including the female form.

    I don’t think it’s any more complex than that.

    Maybe this thread was meant to be about pedophiles, if so, you’ve lost me, simply because I’d rather look at a full blown beauty with sex appeal and the ability to go where that may take her, rather than look at, or be with, a child, or a pea brained teen.

    I don’t get the attraction, I always preferred at most three years between my age and any partner once I was over 21, prior to that, the biggest age difference was two years, and only then with girls over 16. Prior to that, I thought only sissy boys liked girls, lol.

    OK, OK, so I was a bit slow, lol.

  198. Anna. I am with you. My husband is 53 and I caught him looking at teen porn. It is a huge problem in our marriage. I don’t even know why I am here. If I had my money, job and house I owned before we met I would have been gone years ago. Not to sound concieted, I was a hotty when we met. His co worker had his eye on me too but I choose him. I had our son 11 years ago and worked my butt off to get back into shape. I looked great. I know how it hurts. I honestly can’t tell you the last time we were intimate. He told me he stopped but I got up very early one morning and caught him again. He’s a dog that’s all I got to say. I am so alone. I feel cheated.

  199. I just read this article about a researcher whose findings suggest that the effects of pornography on male behavior and attitudes are negligible. Here are a couple of interesting quotes:

    We started our research seeking men in their twenties who had never consumed pornography. We couldn’t find any…

    Lajeunesse found most boys seek out pornographic material by the age of 10, when they are most sexually curious. However, they quickly discard what they don’t like and find offensive. As adults, they will continue to look for content in tune with their image of sexuality. They also rarely consume pornography as a couple and always choose what they watch.

    All test subjects said they supported gender equality and felt victimized by rhetoric demonizing pornography. “Pornography hasn’t changed their perception of women or their relationship which they all want as harmonious and fulfilling as possible. Those who could not live out their fantasy in real life with their partner simply set aside the fantasy. The fantasy is broken in the real world and men don’t want their partner to look like a porn star,” says Lajeunesse.

    What I take from this is that women who feel hurt by their partners viewing pornography alone (you have a right to your own pain—I can’t judge your situation through the intertubes) may take some solace that their partners are not abnormal, that viewing pornography doesn’t erode all sense of decency, and that their partners won’t necessarily allow their fantasy life to spill over into their relationship.

    Peace.

  200. I’m not defending the men but in truth alot of these ” teens” in the porn are not teens. Just like in the movies many of the actors are not teens but people in their 20s. We in society, in media images don’t have a good image of what a real teenager looks like just portrayals and ideas. At my age of 25 I look at teenagers and see them as children. When I was a child I saw them as almost adults. But they are not adults they don’t have the money or necessary skills to care for themselves in this society.If it were youth that was being glorified then infants the youngest of us would be the ones being sexualized. Its taboo, a mixture of maturity and youth , a sense of power and control that makes it alluring. But it too would get old after the 1st time. Thats why people are in relationships most often with people that stimualte them not just physically but also intellectually if they are lucky.

  201. I was appalled to find teen pornography on our old computer, the computer that we gave to our young son for school work and occasional games. If I may also add that I was very clear that I have no say over what he looks at outside of the home, but that I never want any of that in the home near my children again. This is far from the only issue between my husband and myself. However, it went take too long to get into all the gory details. He has since left the family home (somewhat mutually)trying to come back a few different times as if nothing happened. But then went and stayed under the same roof as a teenager. I do not want him back in the home, yet he claims he does not want to legally seperate or divorce and that we are still to be in a commited, loyal marriage to one another. Due to his past actions and feeling as if our entire marriage is based on lies (his lies) I cannot rely on him to help with the children, follow through with anything he says he will do, or make any positive changes. Alo, I cannot wrap my head around how he thinks he hasn’t just creating more questions, suspisions, insecurties, and pure disgust over his behavior.

  202. Cheri (or anyone else who wants to share),

    I’m going to turn over a new leaf and try to listen for a change. :)

    I’m curious about why your husband’s viewing of pornography hurts you. How do you feel when you think about his use of pornography? What message do you receive from his actions?

    Thanks for sharing.

  203. Well, I am still feeling mixed up inside, and more importantly strapped for time. I haven’t read through many of the posts here, but I definitely want to gather some information from seperate sources, and “feel out” different perspectives from both males and females, varied age ranges, and backgrounds, etc. I am not sure if I came to the right place, but I suppose time will tell. I will certainly read through more posts when I have more time.
    As I stated before, this viewing of pornography is not the only issue within my marriage. The main issue is that I feel our entire marriage is based on (his) lies. And I now question everything about him, his mentality, his sexuality, and all he says, and does. I do know he has viewed it in the past, mostly during deployments, but also in our home against my wishes (because he doesn’t lock or clear anything and I DO NOT want my children seeing ANY of it!). It’s not so much that he has done it, it’s more the other issues surrounding it (like sneaking, being dishonest, neglecting other things to do it, etc). What has hurt the most is finding junk titled ‘teens’ most recently. It immediatley turned my stomach into knots and made my already tricky heart (I really do have a heart condition) feel as if it would explode within me. When I confronted him, he became irate with me and actually called ME a f***in pervert…. ME?!?!?!
    It’s all complicated with me, I feel, as I have very particular values, life choices, sexual tendencies (not saying I am a prude..but, well more on that later… maybe)and comfort zones.
    My former step father once told me (and others) guys swarm to me, and he gave several cute analogies at different times throughout the years. I’ve also been told (in the past) I drive guys wild/crazy, and my smile could get any guy into a world of trouble. But in this “past life” of mine (before marriage and children, it seems whatever it is I had has only gotten me into trouble. I say that because at a very young age I was exposed to “driving men crazy”. As a child, I was touched inappropriately by a man at my church. At age 14 I I lost my virginity without a say in the matter when a friend and I were brutally “gang raped”. At age 15 (I left home) and moved in with a couple and helped care for their two young sons. I attended high school while living there and had my own room. It was all fine and good until the dad started coming on to me. It seems eveywhere I went I attracted guys, in many cases much older than myself. I never thought I put myself out there. Yes, I looked older, but I was very modest and innocent in many ways. I have since done work for people of varied age ranges that have survived similar experiences. Though there have been some postives, there is no doubt my sexuality, intimacy with others, and feelings and views toward such was forever altered.

    (must end the ramblings for now (duty calls), but will likely add more at another time)

  204. Cheri, I’m looking forward to hearing more of what you want to share, but I just want to interject that I can see why, given your personal history, you would feel pained to learn that your husband has been secretly viewing “teen” pornography even if “teen” really meant young adults. And I agree that secrecy can amplify feelings of betrayal in a relationship.

  205. I am only recently learning to change the habit of letting others determine how I feel about myself.

    I am no longer willing to let the behavior of others have power over my state of being and peace of mind. If someone lies, cheats, is mean to me, whatever, that’s their loss.

    They are obviously powerless and not in control of their own impulses. I feel sad for them because as long as they continue being powerless and unable to make choices that will lead to satisfying relationships, they will not get to experience the joy of being self-fulfilled while sharing that joy, playfulness and intense pleasure with me. Period.

  206. My wife and I have argued about pornography, and so did my parents. I feel that its an outlet that isn’t adulterous. (Is not the same as cheating) But my wife feels that any sexual activity shes not envolved in is cheating. I don’t think the images of a woman is at all the same as an actual woman– after all, we’re really talking about masterbating while fantasizing about an imaginary person. This is why I think its okay, and she doesn’t. We agreed that lying about it is not okay, but I’m not going to abstain from it completely so its better left unspoken… Fortunately, our marriage has survived it.

  207. I think relationships can survive pornagraphy if it is not used as a substitute for intimacy. I can understand why some women feel hurt about their partners use of porn. I think many people in relationships, once the newness wears off, are not experiencing real connection, sharing, intimacy.

    I am aware of ways to channel sexual energy so that it revitalizes the whole being, emotional, physical, and spiritual, rather than just serving as a quick release.

    When sex is engaged in ways that embrace the whole person, the relationship only deepens and both people continue to increase in their love for the other through sex.

    Sadly, this seems to be lacking in most relationships.

  208. I am teetering along the line between being accepting of my husband’s use of pornography and being appalled. I think that pornography is great for single people needing a healthy sexual outlet, but I personally believe that once you are committed to someone entirely, your individual sex lives should merge to one.

    But like I said, I am trying!

    Who knows, perhaps some underlying lack of self-esteem is why I have felt so hurt in the past by my husband’s use of pornography.

    I do attribute some worth to the anthropological and evolutionary theories posted here attempting to explain why men like to look at young girls…but where do you draw the line?

    If there is a valid evolutinary reason that men are sexually attracted to post-pubescent girls, is it then ok? Can we condone that men are attracted to 14 yr olds as long as they have no intention of ever acting upon this desire which they did not ask for?

  209. Even if there are valid biological reasons that some examples of the human male have been primed by evolution to feel attraction to young post-pubescent females, the rise of modern civilization has created social reasons that those attractions should not be acted upon outside of fantasy. In other words, things have change since we marched into the Holocene. However, I think its just as wrongheaded to shame such a man for his attractions as to blame someone who feels homosexual attractions. There are more effective ways to prevent inappropriate sexual liaisons.

    Marriage (formalized or not) as I see it isn’t the complete union of two people. Instead, it’s the creation of a space where two interdependent people meet. Each retains their individuality and a part of themselves that is not in service to the marriage. The devote part of themselves to the creation of a mutually nourishing and creative relationship.

    Those moments when I have felt the most demanding that my spouse devote her entire self to me (for example, early in our marriage when I feared the thought that she would remarry if I died) coincided with times of personal insecurity, times when I felt most dependent on her for validation and security. As I have gained strength as an individual, my anxiety about unfaithfulness on the part of my spouse has decreased.

    I allow her space to herself, she allows me space, and we love the times that we come together. ;)

  210. There is a basic answer, but I doubt anyone will agree with my reason. But, men look at teen porn and all porn because of what the Bible-God’s Holy Word says: Romans 3:23 ” For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of GOD”. Man is born sinful, all of mans deeds are evil. That’s what the BIBLE says. So it’s black and white.

    I know that the psychology majors, the existentialists, the agnostic and the atheist, along with those who just don’t know for sure if the BIBLE is the truth, will not agree withe me. Most people, approximately 80% of the US population, do not believe in the BIBLE. The BIBLE is very clear on this issue. Mankind is sinful by nature.

  211. Jonathan, I believe that’s 74.2% of statistics are made up on the spot, rather than the figure of 63% you mention. But not to worry, by tomorrow I might be whimsically inclined more towards 63%.

  212. First, sorry if my english is not good.

    My opinion in this topic has changed. I used to think liking youth is natural, as many of you commented. When I started studying anthropology I realized many of the thing people tend to think are natural are not.

    Lets take for example homosexuality. Why there is men who have no sexual attraction to females. The same applies to women. Weird but real. Why there are people into necrophilia, pedophilia, acrotomophilia, morphophilia, people who like transexuals. Again, weird. This is supposed to not be natural many can think. The truth is genes do not encode sexual preferences. Simple as that. You can make a parallelism with female attraction to pink color. Do genes make girls like pink. Why the majority of us are fond to pink? Why do we like junk food who do not have nutrients which damages our bodies? Why there are people who do not like vegetables which are nutritious? Why people like cocaine, alcohol? Is there a gene for cocaine and alcohol? NO.

    There is a genetic fever among scientist, and now everything has to be blamed to genes. We recently discovered human dna, and then boom every single human behavior is for many scientist a gene work. No, no, no.

    Genes don’t no nothing about preferences. This are things formed early in childhood. Humans interact with the envionrment, and the experience we have shape most of our thoughts and our behavior. Humans are very different from many animals, you don’t see a lion having sex with another dead lion, and is because humans are the most sociable animals, and the ones that experience affects them the most. Our interactions have an impact in the brain.

    Is very difficult to change our preference ones we have programmed our brains to like something. Sexuality is something that’s formed in a person’s head when they’re very young. It’s fully apparent around about the early teen years.

    Genes don’t encode for sexual preference. Genes mostly code for physical growth.

  213. Interesting discussion, it took me a while to read through the threads. I had just put together a short blog on fake dating profiles, focusing on the now 51 year old Maurice Wolin, who was the US cancer doctor arrested for trying to solicit a 13 year old girl on the internet. He was caught in an NBC undercover sting called ‘To catch a predator.’

    http://date30plus.blogspot.com/

    I find it all a little disturbing and I am uncomfortable with some of the comments on this blog. If you watch Wolins reaction to his arrest you begin to see that sexual attraction to younger teenage girls is fuelled by a warped fantasy, ego, and a perception of control and dominance over the younger victim. It was also interesting to see that Wolin had daughters of a similar age. Surely the unconscious association between his daughters and his intended teenage victim would have been enough to ensure no father would even contemplate a sexual liason of this type. Its just plain wrong. Having said that i do understand that teens who have reached 18 and 19 are free to associate with older men, but for me the issue is not that the guy is older, more the difference in the age gap, a guy in his late 20’s being attracted to a 19 year old is not a problem for me but a 50 something male who could pass as the teens father is pushing the boundaries too far and i cant see any healhy, well adjusted teen having the slightest interest in a middle aged man with an unhealthy desire toward much younger women. I think Wolin illustates the dangers of internet porn and chat rooms allowing unhealthy fantasies to develop in this way

  214. The failure to understand and have compassion for these troubled men (and even to demonize them) leads to tragedy and condemns us ignorance about ourselves.

    The To Catch A Predator crew caused a Texas prosecutor to commit suicide when they harassed him at his home after he decided not to follow through with his date with the pretended minor. Further, many of the men arrested on the show are never convicted because they have committed no actual crime. They solicited an adult posing as a minor, so they either are not prosecuted or are acquitted because no minor was endangered.

    Our relish for this program shows how we love to deny the darker side of our human nature. Instead of seeking to understand, we shame and sneer. In my experience, this only means that we haven’t learned the lesson that the tragedy of these men’s choices present to us.

    BTW, I refuse to let men take all the blame for lusting after young women when I see so many middle-aged Twilight Moms lusting after the teenage stars of the movies. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander. ;)

    • Those guys in tiwlight are played by adults, the youngest was 17, though play teenage boys who are 16, 17. Theres a big difference between that and a 13 year old, those men do not deserve sympathy and compassion, no more than a robber or murderer does,we all have bad desires that hurt others and having empathy and compassion means not acting out on them, that disrespects victims,how do you think anyone who was targeted by those kinds of men as a teenager feels hearing you say they desrve empathy? I cant believe you have daughters and you feel these men desrve sympathy, they made the choice to break the law and potentially cause irreparable damage to an innocent young girl, countless studies show underage sex causes girls p[problems, not sex with boys there own age but sex with way older men, its hard enough being a women without having to deal with that crap and mens bulshit when your too young enough to understand pr stand up for yourself. Men need to understand that stuff damages young girls, most of them, enough to justify making it illegal and to downplay it and sympathize for a grown man who mad a choice is unfair. MEN ARE VISUAL SHALLOW ETDC BLAH BLAH BUT THE LINE NEEDS TO BE DRAWN SOMEWHERE, MEN PREYING ON GIRLS AS YOUNG AS 13 DESERVE TO BE CAUGHT AND PUNISHED. Even in developing countries many people try stop marriage that young but are unable to due to lack of responses, corrupt police etc. It may benefit men but it doesn’t not benefit girls and society. Drug addicts dont get sympathy so why shoudl these men? They are criminals. 18. 19 is completely different from targeting 13 year olds. You were never sexually abused so you odnt understand how it feels and the damage it has on the rest of your life. Most of these kids dont even want to have sex when the meet up with the men and get made to or bullied to, thank goodness dateline catches some of them before they hurt a real kid, the guy who shot himself, that was not datelines fault, he chose to kill himself coz he got exposed for trying to have sex with 11 year old boys. My sympathy lies with his victims. Many kids get ostracized in their own families when they have been sexually abused. This coward had to deal with shame many abuse victims go through and tooks a cowards way out. Sticking up for men watching 18, 19 year old porn is one thing, advocating and expecting people to show empathy for a pervert who preys on a 13 year old is sick in my opinion. Doesnt matter if its biological, its also biological to murder etc. And for teens to be traumatized and try run away form creeps like that. Wh do they want to risk dying in childbirth for these perverts?

      • People who sneer and hate these men have often been hurt by them when younger so have every roight to be angry and sneer at them, Im sure if someone hurt you and your daughters, you would want to sneer ta them to and if you dont there something abnormal about you. You may be surpised the people who make the biggest deal have been hurt by these creeps, even if they didnt hurt a kid the intention was there, it is good if dateline teaches them a lesson before they go on and do the real thing. Wh the hek are you to tell peoplenot to get angry at men who hurt sopciety and hurt kids? And except us to sympathize with them? If I desrve to do stuff that hurts others I expect a negative reaction form people. Why shoudl men who hurt teenagers, be teated spoecially? We all have isntintcs that are bad and those who odnt choose to ocntrol them and hurt otehrs in horrible ways desrve to be punished andput down, that is not to say they dont derseve forgiveness but for gosh sakes let people have thier anger. The majority of young girls are messed up, as are young boys by sex with way older men and they are usually pressured into it, society didnt just come up with these lies to attack men, they are there for a reason. You never hear people sticking up for robbers and murderers the way you here people stick up for predators. JUST COZ ITS BIOLOGICAL DOESN’T MAKE IT ANY LESS WORSE THAN DOING OTHER STUFF THAT HARMS PEOPLE. And who the fuck is any man to tell a girl who went through this stuff herself its not damaging/ Your not young girls. You werent abused, you can only speak for yourselves. I speak for myself and research that proves its damaged alot of other girls and boys to. We may have looked ready for sex but we werent,not with older men.

  215. The psychology of why men look at teens has me researching like there’s no tomorrow. Honestly I get viewing porn. I don’t like it but I get it. As a woman I understand men are visual. All sexual sin is sin coming from a Biblical standpoint but men are sinful in nature and born to sin so we all have this natural sinful lust for sex. I get that. The degrees and the style is what has me wondering and bewildered! I thought I was alone in this battle but I’m finding it’s not just me but millions of women dealing with this. For me and how I know my husband I think so much of it is acceptance, being 40s now, not feeling attractive, curiosity about girls and how they act. I agree with some other statements above that I think it brings men back to their youth. I recently came across a social video chat site that is not pornographic and in fact a member will be booted for doing such. However.. I found that my husband has been viewing teen chat rooms. Basically he sits in these chat rooms, doesn’t contribute to the converstion at all (I made a profile and find him in these rooms) but I guess just views the girl in the video and reads the chats. There are several girls on his list 14-19 years old. 14 years old?? C’mon?? What the heck is wrong with him??? Why is a 14 year olds behavior, looks, chat sessions so appealing?? I know this is not something he would ever act on. We have a good marriage, he is alwasy home with us, doesn’t travel etc.. comes home for lunch everyday etc. etc.. his social life is his family. He doesn’t do the guys night out etc.. so it’s not about that and wanting affairs or to meet these girls. It’s about his secret get-a-way, his secret escape from it all. It’s this fixation with chat rooms, teens etc.. and I am just trying to figure it all out. What is the lure?? What is the attraction? Is he a sick individual at this point?? Is this something that we take as “normal”, “all men do it” and live our lives?? I think a man viewing pornography and a man viewing teens is very different. I would rather my husband be viewing 30 year old in a porn movie. There is just something dark and twisted about observing teens in chat rooms. To the statement above I absolutely agree that woman are just as bad. To think woman in my age bracket -40s’ lusting after these young guys/teens is disgraceful and disgusting. To say an 18 year old is hot is gross. To say he is handsome and attractive for his age is one thing but to lust and say he’s sexy and hot is crossing the line. I don’t think woman sit in chat rooms obsessing over teen boys however. Sexual attraction to woman is strength, power in men so therefore a teen wouldn’t be attractive to me. Sexual attraction to men is purely visual. This is why men look.

  216. @Jessica
    This is just the honest truth –
    The reason your husband likes 14 year old girls is the same reason ALL other men like 14 year old girls – They are CUTE and INNOCENT.
    Men like cute, not hot. I know the words are uesd interchangably but what men really want is cute. cute teens are peppy, talk cute, make cute faces, and have developing body parts that are more fascenating than older womens. ALL men are like this. they will lie in order to not be labeled, but its true.

  217. Marina’s comments seem to be the most valid/objective to me. I find teens beautiful, but youth – in all living things – is beautiful, whether it be animal, human or plant; beauty does not equate to sexual attraction. If there is sexual attraction, then that is a preference, not biological hardwiring. Attraaction to teens is a facet within an individual. (In saying that, culture sexualizes the young, especially when marketing to the youthful demographic. Whether you as a developing/ageing male/female continue to relate sexually is a very subjective, individual matter and it is evasive to claim otherwise).

  218. I can empathize with both the wife of someone who lurks in teenage chat rooms and the man who lurks.

    I was a teenage girl once so what they chat about is not that foreign or that interesting to me but I guess I could imagine what it must be like to be a man who does not have an outlet, the way some gay men do, to express their inner teenage girl “oh, no he dint”, (snaps fingers in air three times).

    I think women play many roles, wife, mother, sex kitten, intellectual, teacher, nurse, police officer, executive boss, sports competitor, etc but men do seem to be a bit more limited when it comes to living out their inner feminine side.

    I don’t know the answer but I do wonder if these restrictions can cause unhealthy obsessions which can be confused for other types of unacceptable behavior and maybe even the man himself is confused and doesn’t really know why he is looking but just assumes it must be sexual because that is the only “obvious” or acceptable conclusion he can even entertain.

    I know both of my nephews went through a period when they were about three years of age of really (and loudly) not understanding why they couldn’t paint their toenails pink and wear headbands, lipstick and high-heels like their big sisters and mother does. They are both brilliant artists and musicians today and are not gay but it was difficult for them to come to terms with their own sensitivity and the seeming unfairness that it is more acceptable for their sisters to express this sensitivity than it is for them.

  219. I must say this discussion is really interesting.

    Funny is that in my country we do not call people aged 18-25 (or even as I saw here: to 30y.o.) teenagers. We call them young adults until they’re 20 something. Then they are adults.
    We try raising them to take responsibility and act mature when they’re 20. Most move to their own apartments at 18 and therefor they grow up in mind. (Of course we still have these, in my opinion, immature kids running around.)

    And no, I don’t believe that a 18 year old person’s brain is not fully developed.

    In a more easter country (my way seen), Russia, they marry young and have children young. Like around 18-25 years old. Also, between 18-25 a woman is most fertile.

    I asked two men about this actually, they’re both ~ 35 years old.
    Obe of them said that many women his age looked like “grandma’s” – I laughed my arse off and asked him again. I didn’t really accept that as an answer, but he insisted. He thought that women his age stop dressing nicely, being funny and adventours, which he liked.

    One thing which both men mentioned were that they find it more attractive to look at a girl whom are very fertile and can reproduce children. One of them were longing after children and the other one just said “It just turns me on more knowing what could be.” (meaning he could make her pregnant)

  220. I noticed your web site when I was browsing for something not related at all, but this page showed up at the top of Google your site must be so popular! Keep up the good work!

  221. em 19 girl it will be strange to hear about it that i do not have a boyfriend means nothing kinda that but i have a problem when em in front of a guy of my age or above that i feel insecure because i think in this age em enough old to read eyes of someone that what he wants and every one just feels looking badly i avoid outside because honestly at that time i see my mom dad in my imagination and from that i control the situation but the real problem is that sometimes i get to much curious that i wanna find someone at that time and………so my question is that is there any way or suggestion to have control on my self plzzzz i need answer these days em really getting out of control plzz answer me about that anyone.

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  223. Wow, oh my gosh – I’m 20 years old and I feel so old and unattractive now!?! Now I’m going to be paranoid that my boyfriends into this stuff!? ugh! Chicks get dealt the rough cards. I feel physically sick and I feel like I want to cry.

    If anyone asks as to why I feel this way; I would feel upset if my boyfriend looked at porn (we’ve had arguments about it in the past) is because.. I’m willing to do anything for him, and I take offence to him wanting to get his jollies off over somebody elses body. Isn’t mine good enough? I pretty much have a 6 pack for gods sake. Why would he even want to do that? The chicks he had on his computer were atrocious..Honestly..I just figure.. why waste your time when you have the real thing right in front of you, I figure if he’s going to do that – he doesnt need me for sex, he wouldnt appreciate me masturbating to huge penises.. I even got glamour photos taken for him just to prove a point. He got upset because someone else saw me naked…JEEZE GO FIGURE!? bit of a double standard there.. He doesnt care for it anymore (unless he’s doing it behind my back in which I dont want to know) but ugh.. it’s so bizarre how men will try to protect some sleazy trashbag images at the risk of ruining a real relationship!? it’s just crazy. In all honesty, I dont mind looking at some when I’m *with* him, but the thought of him wasting sperm on some hobag he’ll never get just depresses me.. whatever it’s just a ‘fantasty’ but its like… they WANT to have sex with them, if they were in the room they WOULD. haha oh dear I am so cynical for someone so young, you dont understand how much I wish I could change :(

    I’ve been lucky though to never have found any teen stuff…and hope I dont..At 20, I feel hideous and guilty for noticing someone who’s even 2 or 3 years younger than me – but since everyones supposedly into it

  224. Jade,

    At 20, you’re the age of the women most often featured in “teen” porn, and I’m willing to bet your boyfriend finds you extremely attractive.

    In my experience, masturbation and intimacy with a partner serve different purposes. It’s not a zero sum game where more masturbation means less sexual intimacy. Masturbation isn’t a replacement for sex.

    I hope you can find a place where the actions of your boyfriend don’t threaten your self image. It’s painful to see your needless self doubt.

  225. I just fail to see the point in being in a relationship when people always seem to be lusting and wishing they could screw someone else? What, do you use us as an emotional staple whilst wishing you could shag some barely legal tart on your computer screen!?

    The images I’ve seen on his computer; I’m just like.. wow is *that* what you find attractive? yuck. He thinks I’m the most amazing thing ever which is sweet but it’s like if you think that then you sure as hell shouldnt need a substandard skank who’s had more penises in her than we could both count.. well I dont understand how some of you guys can justify looking at it if it affects your partner *so* much when it can jeopardise your relationship.. WHY is it so important? If ‘variety’ is the spice of life, then why the hell bother being in a relationship? Why can guys feel absolutely fine about looking at the crap but then get pissed off if their girlfriend decides to ‘join the game’ so to speak and get some photos done FOR their S/O?? “Oh I dont wwant to share you” OH WOW DO YOU THINK I WANT TO SHARE YOU!? ugh! (this was a while ago btw).. why so guys think they have god given rights to ogle anything with female anatomy but get narky if someone looks twice at their girlfriend???
    :'( ugh why do I have to feel this way..

  226. He basically had the audacity to say that the photographer didnt capture me very well, this was on our 1 yesr anni btw…. just completely beat down on them and has called me a sl*t heaps of times, and once again.. How can he justify calling me that name when he had all his online wenches?!

    hetero porn i dont mind so mcuh its actually more or less pictures of naked girls or ones just tuoching themseleves etc… I CAN DO THAT TOO! fark; id love to see how he felt if i uploaded a video onto the net of me doing that./

    *sigh* its a non issue nowaways but this blog has stirred up a lot of demons

  227. From my experience, there’s nothing emotionally sustaining about porn. That’s not its purpose.

    I think that for many men love is only somewhat connected to sex. My sexual attraction to other women has no bearing on my affection for my wife. I love my wife as intensely as I’ve ever loved anyone, but that doesn’t prevent me from finding other women attractive. I’m truthful about this with my wife (without throwing it in her face every time I see someone attractive), she is also truthful about her extra-marital attractions, and because we have an otherwise healthy relationship, our relationship isn’t threatened by that truth.

    I don’t know why this is, but women generally seem to see love and sex as intertwined while men see them as independent of each other. So maybe you interpret viewing pornography as emotional infidelity while your boyfriend may feel no emotional bond with these women.

    It sounds like there are some deep-seated issues in your relationship that pornography gets the blame for (at least pornography seems to bring out feelings of insecurity for you). You’ll need to decide how to handle the issues, but verbal abuse is never OK. You deserve better treatment.

    • Thank you jonathan, I do agree with a few things you say, that she doesnt deserve verbal mistreatment. I see the way these men treat their wives, how my dad treated my mom, them abusing and taking their frustrations out on them coz they cant get these little hotties, thats so wrong. Then they wonder hwy there wife gets upset? If men got ignored and mistreated they would get upset. I myself am to afraid to have a relaitohship when I get older in case men treat me like this. I wouldn’t stand for it. Id rather be single. It scras kids to seeing their dad disrepsect their mom and openly lust oevr teenagers (Not making reoanbale effort to hide these feleings) includng their own daughters,

  228. Oh sex doesn’t equal love to me either.. I just find it rude :-s why have the rest when you have best?? You watch that stuff and it means in someway you’d LIKE to screw them… The only thing that’s stopping that from happening is the fact they aren’t there.. Ugh

  229. “You watch that stuff and it means in someway you’d LIKE to screw them… The only thing that’s stopping that from happening is the fact they aren’t there.. Ugh”

    I can’t vouch for all men, but more would stop me given that opportunity: my love for my wife; the effect that it would have on my children should they ever find out; possible disease, pregnancy, emotional attachment; etc. Fantasy is a place where inconvenient complications never intrude. Real life isn’t like that. Sometimes we lose sight of that distinction, but just because we fantasize about something doesn’t mean that we would actually do it if given the opportunity in real life.

  230. Thanks for your words of advice, I appreciate your perspective – as I said it’s really a non issue for me these days (well the teen porn thing with him never has been an issue coz he’s not in to it)but reading this really stirred alot of negative things up for me that I used to feel in the past.. So it’s best for me to avoid reading anything that will let these feelings surface lol l.

  231. So far, so good. I haven`t read all the 263 comments, but I woke up this morning at 2 am and the first thing in my mind was why my boyfriend prefers to look at women between 13 and 20 and since I can`t ask nobody at this time, I found this marvelous website. He presumes to be a well read person, blah, blah… But how come he can`t control this behavior at least when I am present. It`s annoying, distracts him from our moments of being together and makes me feel uncomfortable not because I have insecurities but because it`s sick how this kind of men don`t have something better to do with their minds, lack of respect not only to the teen they are looking (I remember when I was that age I used to hate this type of men, the way they look at our body is very disturbing) but also to the woman they say they love, yeah right. They are losers, have no integrity, fucked up in the mind, stuck in the material physical level, have no maturity at an spiritual level that will really make them feel real, not a teen fantasy, what a such stupid illusion, I think an animal has better reasons to follow their instincts and at least they wait until the female is mature enough to be sexually active and don`t care how tight their vaginas are or how firm the breast is.. They must have to stop feeding their internal messed up beast, that`s why this world sucks.(check The Virgins of Juarez, in Mexico) and child prostitution, sexual slavery, human trafficking, etc…

  232. Men are not just brain (programmed to want firm bodies, healthy glossy hair, beautiful smooth skin), they also are humans with a heart and a soul. An unbalance in these 3 will create a disorder, behavioral problem. Men need to program their brains in loving themselves, not in undressing innocent ladies who are going to be physical and mental damaged by selfish attitudes. Teens need a hand to grow with love and self respect not a pair of lusty eyes that can destroy their dignity.

    WAKE UP STUPID MEN

  233. I just watched Puppetji’s new video, and it reminded me of this thread. There’s so much hurt and baggage out there. Women seem to be seeking out an explanation for their partner’s behavior. They come with baggage that tells them that they already have an answer to their own question: men are pervs who can’t control their unnatural desires.

    Maybe that answer is getting in the way of asking the question with a real desire to observe and listen with a heart open to the possibility that we may learn something new about human nature. Maybe the quick answer is the enemy and we need to spend more time asking the question.

    Namaste.

  234. I’m one of the women outraged by my husband looking at teenage porn. First even though I understand that it is the stance of most the men on this blog to state repeatedly and adamantly that it not really teens. It couldn’t be because that is not legal and they state it right on the site that it’s adults ect. Well I’ve looked at plenty of those sites in the last 15 yrs I’ve been dealing with my husbands problem with this and some of those girl are under age. It’s against the law for people to have sex with animals. Are you saying that if you go to that kind of site it’s not really animals just people dressed in dog costumes? The view that there couldn’t REALLY be any teens on there is just what men tell themselves so that they don’t feel so creepy after the porn feel good is gone. I don’t mind one bit if my husband is looking at porn and have watch it with him. I’ve made it clear I could careless about porn but that searching out underage porn is down right disturbing to me both as his wife and is a female who dealt with dirty old men as a teenager. I am in no way a prude but this one thing has ruined my marriage. This last time was the straw the broke the camels back. He should stop for no other reason than he knows it hurts me and is hurting our relationship. I’ve tried calmly discussing,ranting, crying, begging, and yes all the suggestions about making him happier in the bedroom and I’ve been left with no choice but to think he just doesn’t care. All he does is try to learn from his mistake and not get busted in the same way again. Oh and I don’t go looking for it on his computer I learned long ago not to break my heart that way. Plus once caught he never makes the same mistake twice so he learned long ago to clear his searches ect. I like the other woman wake up out of a dead sleep with this feeling and sure enough he’s busted. I’ve even pondered if getting caught doesn’t do something for him in someway. Hell I’ve thought about this from ever which side and have no answers but this..it’s isn’t my problem it’s his and it nor him are going to hurt me with it any longer. Thanks for bringing this subject to the table. Maybe if enough women realize that they are not alone nor need to be ashamed with this issue then some real information to help people understand will come out. Oh and it’s not just a female issue, my homosexual male cousin is having the same issues with his mate.

  235. Hey Lisa,

    No one should feel ashamed for the actions of their partner. Such shame is one path to codependency. Attempting to control your partner is another path to codependency. This is a real danger for me, so I’m familiar with some of its signs (borrowed verbatim from Wikipedia):

    I attempt to convince others of what they “should” think and how they “truly” feel.
    I become resentful when others will not let me help them.
    I freely offer others advice and directions without being asked.
    I have to be “needed” in order to have a relationship with others.

    I hesitate to diagnose over the internet and as a layman, but it sounds like your husband has a real addiction potentially caused by his shame for his taboo attractions and his feelings of being out of control. Has he sought professional help? As the spouse of a potential addict, have you sought out support, regardless of whether or not he does?

    BTW, I don’t mean to deny that underage porn exists, just that it’s not the norm. With only a single exception, I don’t think I’ve ever come across clearly underage porn (honestly). I wasn’t looking for it, so I think that makes a difference. You have to really try to find it. It’s not usually something you just stumble upon. Chances are anyone looking at teen porn sees adult actors.

  236. I think most of you miss the point. The reason it is wrong to look at teenage porn is because of the fact young girls are being exploited. Human trafficking is a serious problem. On the internet you can never tell where its came from. I see guy after guy on here go on like he and his partner are the victims. How? You could easily look at images of hott young looking women aged 21 and over. There are lots of sexy young looking women aged 20 – 25 to satisfy mens urges to masturbate over attractive women. Teenagers are not the most fertile. Women in their early twenties are. The reason men like young girls is becase men have evolved to like women they can control and who appear vulnerable. That is evolutionary too. So stop using the fertility excuse because the teen years are not womens most fertile age and countless research and sattisticsa show preoblems in teen pregnancies and birth. The amount of suffering young girls go through in developing countries because of young labour is evidence of this and makes anyone who uses that argument disgutsing, because they so igrnoantyl ignore reality and the worldwide sufferiung young girls go through withj difficult labour and pregnacies. Women on here whose husbands watch underage porn and look at teen girls on line and stay with them. You have been lied too, these men dont love you, but you are not victims if you stay with these men. You choose as adults to stay with men who exploit young girls. Thats wrong. You give these men encoragement to continue with something that expolits and causes many young girls suffering.The type of women who stays with a amn like taht deserves no sympathy in my opinion. Like thye men who wtch the porn you forget the real victim is no yourself. How selfish are you people? For crying outloud. Even 18 is to young to understand the consequnes of being in porn. Would you let your 18 year old daughter be in porn?

    Men on here who expect sympathy. Expect it fom your wives but dont expect the rest of us to feel sorry for you. Like drug addicts you choose to start. Addicts of any sort cause alot of saocial problems, Im sorry but expectuing us to have sympathy and not judge you is aksing to much in my opnion. Harden up and get through the aqddiction like everyone else. Drug addiocst dont bleat and moan for sympathy and support so why do porn addicts always excpect it? Your shame shoudl be enough to help you stop.

    How do you think the people you hurt feel?

    Being involved in underage porn damages and destroys the rest of your life, you are never the same.

    Your inncoence is taken away from you when you are to young to understand the consequnces. You are often hurt and mistreated due to your vulnerbility.

    With so much access to hot sexy and cute women in adult porn there is no excuse to look at teen porn uinles you are a creepy poervert who cant control the evolutionary drive to dominate or gets off on being deviant. It has nothign to do with wanting fertile women. That applys to women 20 -25, as a women reaches her fertilty then after hormoes settle donw, soem women reach it in their teens but thats a minority, even in these days of earlky puberty, a womens pelvios and body fat to sutain a healthy pregnacy usually isnt finsihed till age 20.

    Some of you seem to put teen girls on pedastals. Soft? Nice skin? Hair?

    Since when did that not apply to women in their early twenties.

    Acne, greasy hair and underweight is just as cxommon ion teenage girls.

    Sure alot are hot, but so are alot of women in their early twneties.

    Age has nothign to do with attractiveness, untill soemone actuially starts to noticably age which for most people isnt till about 25, and sorry but this is true, I do think there can be no denying women are at their most attrctive under 25 unless they look young for their age.

    So saying that teen girls are all cute hot etc thats bullshit, some are but some arent like with adult women. It objectifies teenage girls by saying that and ovelooks teenage girls who arent pretty.

    What about them? Do they to get swept under the rug?

    Its taht sort of perverse narrow minded thinking atht encourages this problem.

    Hott womnbe look young for their age, but theres a difference betwen being attracted to soemonje who looks young and young girls. And if someone fidn ssoemone who looks young more attractive in a school girl uniform than a sexy low cut dress while that is nothing to do with being visual but being a power obssed pervert.

    The visual argument is whack because there are alot of child like adult women, who dressed as adults look like adults but put them in a young girl outift and they look about 16, and teen girls who dressed as teen girls look like teen girls but put them in a suit and they could look 20!

    Tenage porn markest girls and young looking women as underage in not just looks but clothes behaviour, thats disgusting.

    It contributes to a problem taht caues so many younjg girls problkems and wrecks their lives as adults.

    Do any of you men on here know how it feelsl ike to have a family member tartcated to you?

    Heres a thought., Thiose girls you wank off to think you are disgusting unttractive creeps.

    All tennage girls except for a few think so.

    So maybe than arguing its your biloigcal drive, stop and think about how bilogy makes teenage girls want to run and hide from men with inferior dna because they dont want to have his babies.

    Do you ever stop to think about how pathetic those grisl think you are.

    Women do not prefer older men for sxual reasons b ut because they have low self esteem and dont feell ike they can do better or becauyse raw sex appeal doesnt matter.

    To alot of womne raw sexual attraction isnt that imoportant.

    You can say women will want you for relationships but dont ever mix that uyp with the fact women wil never want you for casual hot sex. Especiallyu those teenagers.

    I am so tired ofr men never talking their own phsycial tatractruivness into account.

    Oh and research has shown womne are hard wired to cheat on less attarctive men whio hott men when opvuialting. Women want to bear babies to the hottest m,en too, they only want ugly men to provide respurces. So stop acting like we all sit around waiting screw and to push ugly mens babies out because its not true. Women are hardwired to be selifh to, just theres so little temptaion aroudn due to men dominating society so much and wahts on tv etc they often dont realize this.

    So think about how much that hurts huh that each time your wife ovulates she secretly wants some hott guy to bang her?

    Anyway all Im saying is there is no excuse. Just admit your dirty pathetic perverst who cant control yourselve when there are other just as attarcrive optionjs out there.

    And if women prefer old gross men so much why are all these men having to resort to masturbating?

    Only some women prefer money etc to looks, waht really happens is most women settle for less because there self esteem is so damaged thanks to men like you.

    If women really avlued support so muh and a good proveder and father then tehy are hardly getting that with men who do it ouit of duty nd masturbate to young girlsd all the time, women just lower there standards more than men because society treats them so crappily.

    Its goit nothing to do with women not being oe visual. We to want hot men just in a more romantic way but we get consistently told we are worthless and cant get anyone to love us unless we are pewrfect.

    Women and girls are raised to please others not themsleves.

    I am tired of people making he most bullshit ignorant excuses for lousy men unable to control the natural instincst so many can.

    Yes and alot of men can.

    At least get your evolutionary argumenst right if your going to use them.

  237. @ Lily: I grew bored and quit reading responses to this thread sometime ago. However, tonight I made an exception and read yours. The level of hatred in you seems astonishing. You even presume at one point to tell women their husbands don’t love them. I strongly suggest you find a good therapist. You can do better than to live a life of hatred.

  238. Have you ever been looked at naked by a fam,ily member? Have you bene hit on b y a freinds dad? Do you get men ask you how old you are on the bus, hjave you been rapoed, pinned down, have you been forced into prostitution?

    Have you experinced any of this, I doubty it.

    I am not full of hatred. I have aq right ot be angry aboutthis stuff.

    Do you not understand how much it hurts women and girls. It destroys young girls lifes, it hurts wives. I am not trying to sound nastyto the wives, I am syaingh they should stay wqith men who look at porn with girlsw who look 15 in them or look go on chat rooms and have 14 yeaqr opld girlsw names on the lists. WEtf is that supposed to be normal?

    WHO WOULDNT BE MAD ABOUT STUFFL IKE THAT.

    Somneone who is not a sick in the head sexual pervert. Someone who is nopt blinded by lust or lovew.

    I AM ATTACKING THEW MEN WAND WOMEN WHOI HAVE ADMITT5ED TO WATCHING AMBIGOUS PORN WHICH COULD BE CHI8LD PORN WHICH IS ILLEGAL.

    IT IS AGAINSTTHE ALW.

  239. I amk not full of hatred. I amangry at men being laowed to eruin peoplesl ives and everyone thinmks its normal;.

    THOSE WOMENS HUSBAND S DO NOTL OVE THEM OTR THEY OWULDNT HURT THEMN.

    LOVING SOMEONE MEANS NOT HURTING THEWM.

    IF THE WIVES DIDNT HAVER A PROBLEM WITH THE PORN IT OWULD BE DIFFERENT BUT IFT HE MAN CHOOSES TO MATSURANTE WHNE IT HURTS I=HSIU WIFE SO MUCH THEN HOW CAN HELO HER?

    THE CRAQP WOMEN ARE EXPECTE3D T5O TAKE, I KNWO HOW JELAOUS GUYS GET IF THIS WA REVERSED MEN WOULD BE ALL AGAINST YOUNG BOY PORN. HECK LOOK AT ALL THSOE COUNTREIS WHERE WOMEN HAVE TOWEAR HEADSCARFS AND BURKAQS.

    OH AND I THINK I AM THEO NLY NORMAL MPERSON ON GHERE AS I AM ANGRY AND DISGUSTED AT MEN WHO READ UP ON YOUNG GRILS IN CHAT ROOMS OF COPURSAE HES HAVING A OPERVE IDIOTS AND WHO LOOK AT PORN WHICH IS UNDERAGE.

    ALOT OF MEN ON HERE SAIDT HEY ODNT KNWO FOR SURE IFT HE GIRLS ARE EIGHTEEN TAHT IS WORNG AQND ILEGAL.

    AM I THEO NKLY SANE OERSON WHO IS NOT THININHG ABOT SEX AND IS UOPSET.

    YOU MEN ALKL MAKE EXCUSES COZ YOU WANT TO MASTURABTE AMN DOTN CARE ABOIUTT HE YOUNG GIRELS LIVBES CYOU RUIN AND YOU OWMNE JUST WANT YOUR HUSBANDS!!!!!!!!!11

    I HATWE POEPLE.

    SOON AS I FINSIH WRITING THIS IM COMMITING SUICIDE.

    MY LIFE WAS RUINED BY PERVERTS.

    AND EXPRESSING HATRED AT BEINMG HARSSED AND PESTERED BY CREEPS ALLT HE TIME, I STILL GET PERVERTS APPROACH ME AT 24 MISTYAKING ME FOR A YOUNG GIRL, OF OCURSE IM GHONNA HAVE ANGER AND SAY MEN SHIOULDLOKK AT HOW THEY LOOK AND STOP ASSUKING YOUNG GIRLS WANT TO SLEEP IWTH THE3M.

    YOU TRY GETTING HARSSED THE WAY I DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  240. Despite the emotional charge behind Lily’s posts, *some* of the points she makes (I believe) are quite valid. One man’s freedom is another man’s (or in this case ‘girl’s’) enslavement. Victims are bound to feel anger, and some of these (often latent, sometimes overt) sexual behaviours should be (at least) worked on to better our future generations (just as there are many other destructive bahaviours that have huge detrimental impact on our environment and other living creatures – animals/humans/plants alike – that we should all be working on). I think it is time (perhaps crunch time) that we at least try to rid ourselves of this evolutionary hangover which causes (a lot would agree) destruction on many levels, just as there are many other behaviours we as a global ‘vilage’ really need to assess and change. I thikn it’s a much bigger issue than jsut biology and that sociatel aspects have more to do with it than some would like to admit. As I think I read somewhere else here “Just because one can, doesn’t mean one should”.

    To say that viewing these images in the privacy of the home is not harmful is just not true. No demand, no supply… and it is young girls/women that are the product; there is no denying. Yes, it’s much more complex than this and is stemming from very old roots (I believe Patriachal foundations). All I’m saying is perhaps those roots are dead and we are trying to derive nutrients out of barren soil.

    Also, an 18 year old teenage female is by law, considered an adult, but the decision making part of her brain will not be fully developed until at least the age of 23 – 25 years of age.

    “The globus pallidus and putamen, two deep gray matter structures, as
    well as the cingulum and uncinate fasciculus, important fronto-
    temporal connections, mature much later, reaching 90% development
    only after 25 years of age.” http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:TziTPhSSJ_sJ:www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/elementaryed/pdfs/MicrostructuralMaturation.pdf+female+brain+maturation+23&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjEg0olmgqRLi_tnkcGLsXwvgjGROdwb90nXdp9ba7jcQejOFXrkOm_vysS6Cc_xl6D11m9t3FRpIsW1InXNP5HvMa6Cblshcj2a-N4Tf57AlC_EXiXgUN5mTpgmkrS6VI8Rb6f&sig=AHIEtbQzuQwW7xp1yKXX-PVB9yQqVguQ9g (sorry; very looong link)

    I think this should be considered in all areas when regarding young adults (not just pornography).

  241. Wow. Reading all of these posts was definitely really interesting. I originally came across this site, not because I look at porn, or “teen” porn for that matter, but because I am sometimes attracted to girls that are of age 16-18 (I am 25). Why? I do not want to have sex with them. Honestly? I think that they’re cute and I appreciate their beauty. Don’t get me wrong, I am also sometimes attracted to women 19-23 years old too. Sometimes though, it is just very difficult to tell the age of the girls when I meet them. Or, after knowing them for a while, I forget that they are young.

    When it comes to pornography though, I do believe that in itself, it is wrong since it takes away from the value of dignity in the woman, and it lets the man become weak and not paying attention to his “weaknesses”. Personally, if my wife (I am not married, I am only assuming if this were the case) gave me pictures of herself naked, instead of just letting me go online to view pornography, I believe that that should be enough.

    Also, please view this website: http://www.whodoesithurt.com/

  242. Men desire and women desire to be desired.

    I have found that trying to get over male’s lolita fixations not worth it. There is more to life.

    The love of my life loves me I am sure. And while I find his eyes wandering on me, I know when I’m not around he’s purusing the internet looking for something teenish and attractive. I am 23, not a model, but I have attracted my share of attention, as I am sure many of you have and still do.

    As I get older and think of getting older, I do experience a bit of insecurity as well as jealousy….young women are attractive and I think more so then since my high school years (what are they feeding them?) But I also know that sex is nothing more than sex.

    While men get older, it is said and I will agree, that they look more distinguished. I also think the same for women but Im not sure how many would agree. And men’s eyes will continue to wander and teens will soak in the attention.

    My advice is to forget it. Don’t waste your time……not because you can’t change the fact (which you cant)but because your time is more valuable than that. When I see older eccentric women, eating whatever they want, wearing whatever they want, talking about dark matter or whatever, I think: that is who I want to be in 30 years and I can’t imagine that pining over short lived attention from a man will help me be secure, intelligent, confident and care free.

    Also, if you still want your kicks, I have found that a swingers club is good fun.

  243. There is a lot of discussion here from the point of view of women being unhappy to discover that their significant other is attracted to teens. I’d like to ask the opposite question; how do older men deal with having to choose between sex with someone you’re attracted to and the benefits of being in a relationship with someone older? How big of a problem is it for you when you love your wife but want the 16 year old babysitter? What do you do about it? Is it something which bothers you or an issue you resolved years ago?

    Personally, I’m in my early 30s, I’m young looking, tall, educated, considered attractive – I have access to younger women, but I won’t forever. I find girls sexual attractiveness peaks between 15 and 18, not attracted to anyone much over 25 (not an absence of attraction, the opposite of attraction). For me, sex isn’t everything and what I want in a sex partner is not the same as what I want from a relationship. With a teen I could have the sex I desire but with my partner (older, whom I love deeply) I have a friend, in intellectual equal, a great conversationalist, someone to share emotional support and experiences with, and who generally sees the world from the vantage point of our age and social position. It’s a compromise, but a good one. If she wasn’t such a vivacious, intelligent person it might be harder.

    Attraction of older men to teens is very common: porn is mostly made for older men since they’re the demographic which still pays for it – younger people are much more likely to use free porn or pirate it on P2P networks – and the dominance of teen porn as the largest market segment speaks volumes. Thus I’d assume there are a lot of older men out there who are attracted to teens but (presumably) not sleeping with one. How do you all cope with that?

  244. “That is so not how I expected your comment to end.”

    =)

    sex is good. its not everything, but damn is it something.

    I am a track coach for teenaged girls. The coaches are predominately older men. Teen girls running around in spandex…..oh and eyeliner, push up bras and lip gloss. It can be a little borthersome but the girls know what theyre after, attention. Most wouldn’t know what to do with a penis, however the fact remains….Of course they aren’t aware yet of their disposable……I mean in the sense that there are so many of them and that they will age (and that some binge drinking, pizza, and bad decisions in their up coming college years will assist in some spare tires and sagging.) I know I sought after older male attention when I was a few years younger and I still enjoy it when I get it.

    I am not advocating sex with young girls who barely know how to handle their period and I am not drawing a line where young is too young. But to the women who find the thought of a male’s desire to have sex with a young sexually aware female repulsive, ask yourself why exactly. I think that you will find yourself denying that you are jealous.

    Despite all the sexual content we are exposed to, I think that we are sexually deprived. Older women forgetting to cultivate their mind and rather spend time trying to look younger. Sex is for you too, but when you do this, it no longer is.

    I don’t think that I am the epitome of my partner’s sexual desires….at least I don’t think so…partly because we actually have sex. And he isn’t mine, but that doesn’t make it any less better. It is just that the thought of sex is sometimes better than sex.

  245. I think both sexes have a point a view that the other side isn’t trying to see. Yes men will be attracted to young beautiful women and I don’t think they can stop feeling those attractions . I agree with Jonathan very much about trying to deny your sexual feelings only leads to addiction and shame . I do feel a wife has to accept her husband being attracted to other women. However I do not see many men here trying to look at the woman’s point of view.You see ,we as women know we are getting older, we realize we don’t have that glow of beauty and when we see our husband being attracted to young women it makes us as women feel less than and disposable . We can feel that all our love and all the devotion we placed in this union means nothing ,all that matters about a woman is her beauty and youth. I understand that you as a husband may not feel that way but I can assure you unless you take time to enjoy your wife and find her sexually attractive and show her how much you desire her when she sees you noticing other younger women she is gonna feel you want to replace her. It will not matter in her mind if you can but just thinking that you would if you could makes something die inside of her.So women accept your men and men make sure your woman knows that it is only an attraction to the young woman’s beauty that you would never indulge in .Also let her know that you find her beautiful. All women want to be the most beautiful to the man she loves . And I think we all deserve to be loved the way we are and accepted by the one who claims to love us. We woman have to see our husbands looking older and seeming to acted like old pervs and just think fellows, how attractive does that look to your woman? Men enjoy the beauty around you but please do it with respect and never let that woman you have forget how beautiful and desirable she is to you . And ladies don’t make your man feel like a perv for admiring beauty but make him feel like he is so desirable you can’t keep you hands off him . Life is short and one day we will all die and if we don’t enjoy the ones we love that will be so sad.

  246. Why do women care? Why is there teen nudity? How many women who wonder why men like teen nudity remember enjoying nudity as a teen or the lure to be naked and feel desired? Why does Google Inc at , Yahoo Inc at , Microsoft Corporation at , and IAC at broadcast nudity to minors. Are they encouraging minors to model nude? Why doesn’t ?

    I have sued because they all broadcast my pornography to children and this affected my own children. I do exquisite pornography but an “image search” of my name should not return my pornography to my children. It did and does now.
    Follow the case online for free by searching anywhere for 5:09-cv-05151.

    I consider my pornography to be re-defining art of the nude human figure as an object of art like Ruth Bernhard first started to do. To many it is just pornography. Pornography is relative to common standards and in Muslim countries all gratuitous nudity is porn.

    Why do men look at news coverage of Roman Polanski and shrug? Polanski has lived abroad and is a multimillionaire after raping a teen? Every one who sees his latest movie chooses to pardon him. It is too late to punish him adequately for his raping a thirteen year old child. Perhaps it is time that even I should accept that fact and move on?

    I will after he has died. Polanski is exactly why men look at nude teens. It can be harmless or harmful. Either way human nature is to adapt. If it bothers you that your man looks at nude teens start the adapting process by talking.
    They are often cute and can be fooled into nudity.

  247. Wow-wow-wow. I have sat up for the last 3 hrs reading this blog. Woe. Wow. Thank you, EVERYONE, for writing your experiences and feelings. Personally, I can/could identify with most of your points of view while reflecting back onto various points in my life. Unfortunately, I’m here now because I’m ill at ease. I’m very, very conflicted with what I’ve discovered (re-) about my husband. (BTW, Jonathan and Paul: You guys are amazing. I hope one of both of you find time to reply.)

    I’m 36; husband 42. Together 18 years. Ten years ago, my hubby and I were teaching English in Japan for the helluvit. During that time in our lives, I “came out” as being polyamorous. I had had fallen deeply in love with 2 other men on 2 separate occasions over 2 year’s time, and after studying my past trends in relationships, I realized what was really going on with me. It was heartbreaking to my husband. Today, he is comfortable with me having relationships w/ women only. -Honestely, it’s a clear-cut case of penis envy and fear of “he might be better at it than me.” (Different topic and ‘problem’ altogether, tho.) After opening this wound in our marriage, he was oddly (or not) inspired to make a confession to me: He was horribly, and I mean terribly-horribly-grossly, upset by a strong attraction he felt toward his Jr High and High School students (particularly the Jr High – HE said). I was, rightfully, concerned. To be honest, I don’t even know how we got through that. It was such a difficult time, overall, in our marriage. (Let it be known: We have been each other’s best friend and loving, supportive partner all these years. We practically never fight and are both educated, practical, fun-loving people. We have two daughters; 7 and 8.5.) But, somehow, we moved through it. He felt better, just having confessed and me not lopping his testicles off for it. I was kind – amidst my own guilt – and the issue faded entirely when I became pregnant shortly afterward.

    Note: Porn has only been a small issue for me. I don’t mind porn at all, now. It bothered me years ago; when I was younger. Now, we watch it occasionally. He probably views it on his own, but rarely. Seriously though, I know he doesn’t because I’ve checked the computer history recently and he’s not hiding porn — the rest of the story below…

    A few years passed… He is a prof at a local college – A damned good one; highly respected by everyone. He also teaches private music lessons to teens and adults. Suddenly, out of nowhere, a HUGE confession spills out about his *obsession* with a 15 yr old private student he’s had for at least a year. He’s REALLY hung up on this girl. Calls himself a “monster,” and is seriously worried about HIMSELF. I react VERY lovingly (internally freaking out, tho) and tell him he needs to stop seeing her as a student and start talking to a counselor. That was really hard for him to do – the former. It took some coercing to convince him he shouldn’t see her as a student, or in any capacity, again. Of course, I know this was the right thing to do.

    He started seeing a counselor and right away started feeling better. As Jonathan has stated, just talking about it kind of kept the ‘demons’ at bay. He saw this counselor for about 4 or 5 months at best. That incident happened about 2 years ago.

    Last weekend, I felt a funny nudge, randomly, to look at the history on our laptop. I discovered that he’s been consistently (about 3-4 nights a week) perusing pictures *of his younger students* and also pictures of his colleagues’ students on facebook. He has friended a lot of them, and some he doesn’t even know personally. He looks consistently at pictures of girls who are “adults”, around the ages of 17-21, and mostly students he is in daily contact with. And I don’t mean he looks at a few pictures. I’m talking like, dozens, twenties, thirties, more… of these fully-dressed, very young-looking, no make-up-wearing (and generally not “sexy” in my personal opinion) girls who are college and running start students of his, his colleagues’ and some from other completely other states. Nearly all of them have the exact same M.O.

    Now… I’m totally at a loss here, Jonathan. Really. This is going to sound really strange, perhaps, but I swear to you: If I had discovered he was stalking some “30-something” woman, I could care less. In fact, I would CELEBRATE. It would really help me out with our poly issues. But, clearly, this is not the case. Instead, unfortunately, I’m finding myself absolutely, undeniably physically repulsed by this information.

    I confronted him, compassionately and gently, a couple of days later when I found a clear window. He was pretty cool and collected. He apologized, but proceeded to explain that he feels it to be normal ‘guy’ behavior. I staunchly felt and feel that it’s inappropriate. I *know* from past experience with him that he is fantasizing about these students and using them to “satisfy” himself. He likely, again based on experience, has very elaborate fantasies too.

    He has sworn to me that he has never and would never make a move or say anything inappropriate to these girls. Honestly, I wholeheartedly believe him. He is no fool. He’s never even kissed anyone but me in 18 years. And he would never do anything to put our family in jeopardy.

    So, my question to “you” is: Is this kind of habit different than a porn habit? I know it has the potential to be dangerous in that it could play out badly for everyone if he were ever to act on these fantasies. But, again, I believe he never would. Still, however, I feel utterly repulsed by the fact that he is so profoundly drawn to “stalking” this age group and to young girls who he *knows personally* and sees on a daily basis. In fact, I’m so disgusted, I can’t even imagine being sexual with him myself. It’s really, really awful. I don’t know what to think or do. I just got online for the first time since I discovered this a few days ago to find some information and stumbled across this blog.

    Advice?

  248. Perhaps a therapist could help him recover the aspects of himself that he is trying to get “in touch” with through these young women?

  249. Hello Ms. D,

    I’m trying to get out of the advice business. :)

    If I am safe in taking myself as an example of a normal male—some opinions vary—attractions to young women are typical (or at least common). I start to feel concerned when I learn your husband is hiding his attractions. This isn’t necessarily bad because everyone needs some private space, but it may be a sign that he feels ashamed or afraid.

    His feelings are not in keeping with his professional position. If he acts on his attractions, it could play out badly as you put it. This may feed his attraction for these women because they are the forbidden fruit. Based on my personal experience, I tend to think the guilt is usually the problem, but that may just be me projecting. Maybe he has deeper problems that getting rid of the shame wouldn’t solve. Or maybe not.

    On the other hand, I’m interested in your reaction. Why do you think you feel disgusted by his actions? Do you really feel disgust, or is it maybe pain or fear? Or all of the above?

    If he were to discover that he too is polyamorous and have a relationship with a young woman, how would you feel about that? Would it make a difference if the woman was your age?

    Why do you feel the periodic need to check up on his internet usage?

    Sorry if this feels like the Holy Inquisition. I don’t mean it that way.

  250. I would like to second what you said, kysha430. A counselor could help him to understand why he feels these attractions, hopefully without the pressure to fix the attractions.

  251. Sorry so-late-reply. I never got the prompt that there was activity.

    Thank you for the responses, Jonathan and kysha430.

    I’ll tell you where we’re “at” now and then answer your questions~

    I do know and understand that his attraction to young women is normal. And I know that he knows this too and is not ashamed. He has agreed that his looking at pictures of his students is inappropriate and potentially dangerous (in that someone could find out – not because he would ever act on any urges). I believe him when he says it was just for fun and that he doesn’t have romantic feelings for these girls, which is/was my main concern. Otherwise, why is he not looking at pictures of hotties he doesn’t know? Why isn’t he interested in actual models and pornography? -still unanswered. I am concerned about the whole “forbidden fruit” thing, a bit. Why the students in particular? That is definitely more forbidden than what’s already offered to men. He equated looking at their pictures to leafing through a magazine of pretty girls. Still, I don’t feel ok about it. But, then he’s agreed that it’s inappropriate… So, why am I still freaked out?

    We’re talking every day, very openly. I feel like my left brain is really groking most of it; I get it. I understand the attraction even though women generally do not go for the younger generation. And I understand why women go for older men too. It all makes evolutionary sense to me. (I have a B.S. in anthropology, so this is all pretty fascinating to me as well.)

    Now, the most fascinating part of all of this has become ME. Why did I respond so intensely to the finding? In fact, I responded so intensely to particular aspects of this situation that now I’m still unable to have sex with him. I’m still feeling scared for some reason. It may go back to my childhood. Interesting, though, I’m one of the lucky ones; I was not sexually taken advantage of or abused. But, my parents went through some really heavy marital problems (homosexual and heterosexual cheating in an EXTREMELY conservative Christian family) when I was 2-5 until my dad left when I was 5. That was a terrible time…

    So, the communication is going great. My husband is constantly reassuring me of his love and affection. We kiss and hold each other. But the poor guy is so horny he can’t see straight. He’s constantly trying to get me to trust him and relax. It’s very tough for me.

    OK, to answer Jonathan’s questions:

    “Why do you think you feel disgusted by his actions? Do you really feel disgust, or is it maybe pain or fear? Or all of the above?”
    -I think I probably feel all of the above; pain, fear and disgust. Initially, it was shock and fear. Then it turned into massive disgust and repulsion. Then pain – when I think of the pictures in my head and of him desiring them.

    “If he were to discover that he too is polyamorous and have a relationship with a young woman, how would you feel about that? Would it make a difference if the woman was your age?”
    -By nature, humans are polyamorous but don’t realize it. (We can debate over this, but I’d rather not. Just do some research if you’re interested.) Technically what we practice in this culture is ‘serial monogamy.’ Almost no one is 100% monogamous. And let’s consider what goes on in our heads, let alone our hearts. Consider this entire blog! LOL. So, to answer the question: Yes, it would make a difference to me if the woman was significantly younger than me. Why? I’m not sure. I don’t know where that fear comes from. I think it’s probably cultural programming. We’re taught, especially girls, from a very young age that men who seek teens/adolescents or women a fraction of their age are perverts. It’s ingrained in our fiber. I don’t know how to un-do it yet. –Two nights ago, my husband made a joke about looking at pictures of MILFs (“Mother I’d Like To F#@!”) and the thought of it did NOT bother me. Not one bit. Fascinating, huh?

    “Why do you feel the periodic need to check up on his internet usage?”
    I haven’t checked-up on his internet usage since… oh gosh… 1998. So, I don’t “do” that. I seriously had a totally insignificant “nudge” to look at the history. We hadn’t been spending much time together at all. He had recently directed a musical and was gone practically 5 nights a week for 2 months. And I work about 3 nights a week. So, we were really out of touch. That might be why I looked.

    So far, I’ve decided to see a counselor personally, just for myself. Actually, I’m going to see a psychic I’ve seen a couple times before and she’s wonderful. It seems to me you can get a lot more bang for you buck if you have a good psychic. ;) And, although the hubby and I are better, we still need to see someone. We’re going to hook up an appt. w/ the guy he was seeing a couple years ago. He’s a couple’s counselor anyway. So, I hope that will help us both.

    Any more words of wisdom?

    (LOL. I just went back to re-read and found this in my first paragraph: “I believe him when he says it was just for fun and that he doesn’t have romantic feelings for these girls, which is/was my main concern.” –I think the problem lies here. I *don’t* really believe him.)

  252. I’m afraid I was bled dry of wisdom long ago. ;)

    I do find the disparity between your reaction to younger and older women fascinating. (Feel like you live in a petri dish?)

    I agree that we are naturally serially monogamous and polyamorous, though I think there are reasons that civilization has gravitated toward monogamy (or at least discouraged free-wheeling forms of polyamory). I also believe human males are naturally attracted to young women. So, intellectually at least, we should be unbothered by both aspects of human nature.

  253. Great comments and points of view being expressed. To my own, I’m a 21 year old female with a 24 year old boyfriend. Yes, he’s older but in the same point in life as myself. We’re both going to college and trying to figure out what we want to do for the rest of our lives. I recently found out he looked at porn through discussion and he assured me it meant nothing. My own insecurities, and lack of self confidence don’t help the situation. Of course my self-esteem/worth took a blow, though I told him it made me feel inadequate in general to be replaced by a internet picture, he continued to let me know I had nothing to worry about and that he wanted me. I started to accept and deal until last week when I, being nosey, checked his history to see what i could find and found one day when he searched for TEEN PORN on google images. I was extremely hurt and frustrated, and felt as though everything I was slowly accepting had been thrown back to the beginning of hurt feelings and insecurities. Everything from lil emma, hot indian teen, hot blonde teen, hot half-black teen, to gigi spice were searched. Being a 120 lb. short white female, I’m a plain jane. I am by no means developed I feel at my age of 21, I’m constantly being told I look like a twin to my 14 year old brother. This makes me worry of course that this is why he’s attracted to me… because I look young and child-like, and will he continue to look at these teens as I age which will make me feel like shit? This being my first relationship I really question his motives now. I don’t know how to approach this subject with him in an appropriate manner.

  254. Jess, no matter how hard they try, porn producers have yet to create a replacement for a real, live partner. Healthy people will still prefer (on most occasions anyway) to be with their willing partner than to spend time with images of strangers. If that’s not true most of the time, then there may be an issue.

    When I talk with my wife honestly, sincerely, and without accusing her of being the problem (I try to avoid using the word “you” in your conversation as much as possible), it almost always works out well. A possible opener might be, “I feel insecure about myself when I think about teenage porn. I worry that as I get older, I’ll be less attractive to you.”

    However, looking through his search history is an invasion of his privacy. (Why do seemingly so many women do this?) If you want to talk about what you found, an apology at the beginning might smooth things over and allow a conversation.

  255. Thank you – to everyone – for the replies. they have definitely given me food for thought!!

    i find myself in a difficult situation. my husband, who i love dearly, and who i know loves me, has been looking at teen porn videos lately. a lot. i’m 26, and he’s 35. what bothers me, is that some of the images he is looking at – although not pornographic in any way – are clearly of younger girls. think 13-20. we spoke about it, and he feels ashamed and guilty (even though this has never progressed into viewing illegal material or acting out anything in real life). he insists he isn’t attracted to young girls.

    i’m trying to be reasonable but this is really bothering me, and it seems to be happening at least once a week. we’ve been together six years, and i feel like as i’m getting older, he’s getting less and less interested in me sexually.

    i’m confused and emotionally exhausted by this. porn has been a big issue in our relationship so far – when i go to work (he works from home), he views it daily. it’s not the porn that bothers me so much as the fact that he is almost totally unable to have a sexual relationship with me, and that on the occasions we do make love, he always seems distant and i feel vaguely uneasy and uncomfortable.

    i want our relationship to work. he’s going to counselling and getting help dealing with childhood abuse / issues in his family, and it seems like the viewing of the younger non-pornographic images (but still disturbing to me) is happening around the time he goes to his sessions.

    i have a bit of a history of depression, and occasionally (but not often) need a ‘break’ from sex (think a few days / a week, not months). i’m trying to deal with my issues on my side, am getting counselling too, and trying to work through them. but he keeps telling me that he watches porn because i’m not ‘interested’ in sex (this isn’t true – he never approaches me, and pretty much every time i try and initiate it, he knocks me back).

    i love my husband dearly and am trying not to judge him for what he obviously feels ashamed and hurt about, but i feel awful. hurt. disgusted. i’m so tired of this issue, and when i find out he’s been looking at pictures of young girls, it makes me want to throw up.

    part of me wants to run for the hills. i doubt that he would ever act on anything inappropriate, in any way, but i can’t shake the fear that if we have kids, this is going to be a problem. his therapist apparently told him that an attraction to teenage girls was ‘normal’, and a symptom of a deeper issue (ie not feeling like he can ask people for what he wants / needs, so i guess the therapist is indirectly saying that my partner uses porn because he can’t ask me…)

    i’m not sure i want to stay in a relationship where my partner is obsessed with teen porn. needless to say, when i know he’s viewed this stuff, the very last thing i want to do is be sexual with him, so it ends up being this awful feedback loop.

    i’m utterly exhauseted, and part of me wants to leave, but part of me wants to support my husband through what i know is a difficult time in his therapy (i’m sure there’s a link between the childhood work they’re doing, and the viewing of these images). i want to accept him for who he is, but i feel physically repulsed by this stuff.

    jonathan – i know you’re leaving the advice business – but i was hoping i could trouble you for one last opinion?? :) you and your wife sound like you have a really open and honest relationship (and btw, my hubby and i generally *do* mention if we’re attracted to someone else / if someone else is attracted to us, and can have a laugh about it…).

  256. this is eating me up. I dont know what to do. I am so tired of the deception. I feel like i have to shut down emotionally just to get through the day. I am so tired of being numb. i cant trust him anymore, even though i love him. I cant rely on him. what happens if we have kids? i cant imagine bringing kids into the world when i have even the minutest trace of doubt about my partners sexuality. I am so over this. Am i overreacting???? Any opionions would be most welcome…

  257. i only read the top of this page as its really late and i dont have enough time to read all of it…but n e who i was jus wanna say that there are ugly ppl and pretty ppl of both genders…some ppl have eternal beauty. i c alot of young girls that are ugly jus cuz their young doesnt mean there good looking…hence they could haave a huge nose…or have zits all over their face or simply be fat. when i was 14 i had a sexual realationship with a 22 yr old man. did he use me yes of coarse he did.at 18 i dated a 33 yr old come to find out he had a whole dresser w teen porn. sum grls on the porn had braces and pig tails….all in all men r effing pigs. grls gotta stick together. we gotta teach our young that they are more then tNa. to cover up more so men of all ages arent looking at them as sexual objects and dont let ur daughters shop at charlette ruse or forever 21. and turn off the disney channel. 4 real…liive to make urself happy. stop trying to plz men al the time we give them the power dont forget it. they aall want one thing and we have what it is they want so stop giving it out for free. dont cry cuz ur man is looking at teen porn. be strong. we carry the world on our shoulders we are a sensitive speices. thats what makes women so great our caaring naturing atitudes not our bodys. if ur man is watching teen porn and he keeps doing it knowing its wrong and hurts u then i say leave em he dosent deserve u.

  258. o yea n one more thing….im 24 now but when i was younger like 19 and maybe a guy that was like 22 and losing his hair early n life was disgusting i wouldnt look at a guy balding n ne sexual manner….now that im 24 its getting harder to find a man that isnt losing his hair which i still find gross but ef it. what r u gonna do. they know they look like ish. u dont see me diddeling myself to guys w hair …nope. im sorry but iif women look bad as they age so do men! especially for those of u that have a penis and balls that are small its like ew maybe i should be w a 12 yr old cuz thats what ur penis looks like does that make me a pedo…no, that makes u a grown ass man with a small penis hahahha sum guys look better when they age but not alot..most of em are balding getting saggy themselves and wrinkley. do u think us women like that? f no but we see inner beauty ….this whole age thing n young grls are for men that have issues…4 real. they obviously got sumthing going on inside that isnt rite…

  259. Hi, I’ve been reading this with great interest, and like many women on here I found my partners stash of teen porn. We are in our mid thirties, and also like many women on here it has eroded my confidence in my sexual appeal and now I feel “old and gross.” Frustratingly, before we met I felt I was in my sexual prime. I’m no bigger than I was as a teen and while I don’t have a swimsuit model body, I never did. I thought I’d finally gotten to point where I finally felt good about my body, past all the negative body image crap that the media foists on us. I’m fitter then I have ever been and had admiring lovers. And then I found the stash and out went all my hard won confidence.

    So there are a few issues I want to address here. The first is why is it so demoralizing? I suspect its a combination of the perpetuation of the beautiful-thin image we women are always comparing ourselves too, even when we know we shouldn’t, and the internet-easy abundance of it. No other generation, with our body images already so distorted, has been so easily able to see the graphic images that their lovers get off too. And its not very much fun.

    As for the teen part of the equation I will adress that more in a minute. The women on my partners sights look young, but not adolescent so the youth aspect was disturbing, but being honest, my stomach would churn equally if I’d found that he favours viewing busty blondes or petite asians, or basically any other body type then mine.

    So what to do? I considered, many times confronting him, letting him know how this makes me feel. As far as I can tell his viewing is infrequent. We did watch some of his porn together once and he was nervous about the youth of the stars.. he made excuses as to why he had it, so clearly he fears judgement. I would rather be included in his sexuality or at least not want him to feel like he has to hide it (anymore then he does). I’d rather be like the husband and wife who can joke about flirting with others.

    Which brings me to a point I think that has not been stressed enough, which is the inherent difference between mens and womens sexuality. Yes we all know that men are more visual creatures, but lets explore this more. We tried watching porn together with the idea that seeing each other turned on, is a mutual turn on. Problem is, we don’t get turned on by the same things. As much as we wanted to enjoy the experience together, really it was me enjoying his arousal and finding the images to be interesting. When I explained this he was disappointed because he’d hoped I would be just as enthused. I suppose there may be some porn out there that does the trick for both of us, anything is possible. But I guess the point I’m tying to make is that since I am not him, I don’t view his porn with the same eyes, so how can I say anything about how he experiences it. Also, as has been stated, even if I asked him not to view it,I can’t censor the camera in his mind, nor to do I want too. Its been a difficult struggle but for the moment I’m trying to let it go. If his viewing were obsessive or if he wasnt interested in sex with me I think that would be another story and I don’t know what advice to give. It was a relief though to read that my feelings of inadequacy are so common and seem more to be because I’m human rather than because of self-esteem issues.

    So lastly, the teen part. I’d be almost ready to let this issue go but for the fact that I have a 13 year old daughter, and my partner also works around teens. I don’t have the sense that this is a problem, but then I would feel negligent as a parent if i didn’t give the matter some attention. So what I wonder is if you are a man, and you are sexually attracted to “teens” then what happens if its a teen you work with, or you have a sisterly relationship with? I suppose its a very individual question. I guess I’d like to think that the male “teacher” isn’t salivating over every little girl who comes up to his desk, even if his porn collection is “barely legal” – its seems insulting to think otherwise, but then maybe that’s wishful thinking.

  260. I did’nt read all the comment cuz I don’t think a man will tell the truth. And i’m not saying all men younger men in there early 20’s I can see looking at younger girls….but finding really young girls made out to look like there 13,14 or even 18 in porn I was sick and finding it on my fiance’s computer I lost it and I have a 14 teen year old daughter myself I was sick to my stomach I confronted him he lied to me and said he doesn’t no how it would be save and in a hidden file..but I could see thhe guilt in his sick face..so I kicked him out I was afraid for my daughter
    But the answer that is really bothering me is was he looking at my daughter sexually and please if anyone can answer this for me I really need to no this I was going to marry this freak Is he a pervert and would hurt a little girl and he has 2 teen girls himself so i’m confused is he a sick f*@k or is most men this way?

  261. I have had a lot of mixed feelings about this subject. On the one hand, I don’t think it is any of my business what my boyfriend fantasizes about, after all, I have fantasies of my own, many of which, do not include him.

    On the other hand, my mom was a single mother and all of my sisters and myself were molested by three of her boyfriends. In fact, they targeted her because she had teenage daughters and she thought they were only interested in her. If you are a single mother of daughters, beware. My sisters are now also single mothers of teenage daughters and neither of them ever have boyfriends, period. Sure it’s a sacrifice but the safety of their daughters is more important to them than having a man.

    Not that they don’t have fun on the side but they do not invite them home.

  262. In response to the original question that was asked why do men look at teenage pornography? It’s simple but attractive, that is what the brain, says no matter how many laws you pass a man’s brain is going to stay the same no matter how indignant when you get about it and push for tougher laws on man’s brain will never change. You cannot force change. Change has to come through evolution and women seem to want to have men change yesterday, and a few women who are so down on pornography eventually gets your way. You would truly be sorry for you will have caused the end of man. Prohibition did absolutely nothing to stop drinking. It actually encouraged it and it also helped create organized crime.
    Ralph

  263. well im 15 years aold and i knwo why men likes us better cause were more fun and easy to get iwth,were interesting,we keep them hip with the up to date stuff, were have nice skin firm breast nice tight bodies were just fir tight and new and our bodies arent old and worn out our faces are young and pretty and so is our voices and men find us attractive and ols saggy skine dowman try to make us look bad cause their jelous of us. plus dont get me rong now there are some very sexy older woman out there ive seen them firm breast and evryhting woman in their 30s and 40s,and men like them but u very seldom see a hot older owman most of them ahve wrinkled face,old worn out bodies,tired looking eyes and skin,and there boreing there not as fun and hip as us. and plus most white people when they get 30 they start to wrinkle and look old us light ksined blakc people with the real bright sexy mixed lookin skin dont need that even when we ge told our skin is still tight and firm and so is our breast plus we have better bodies anyways so we have way more to offer than the the avrage older woman does,my mom is 34 and teen guys still flirt with her her skin hasnt aged at all she still has 20 year old skin and she doesnt waer not a bit of makeup,but lets face the fatcs when ur not young like 20s and under ur just dont ahve it anymore ur just not attractive and 9 out of 10 men these days like us teen girl and flirt with us behind their wives backs and view teen porn and stuff people like miley cyrus get salot of attention form en and thats why older woman hate her cause they know shes hot and their husbands want her. all i can say to u old owman out their is dresss sexy keep in shape buy simply agless products wear mroe makeup wear younger hairstyles and dress likes us teens sometimes and youll be suprised how young u look and feel.

    • AHAHAHAHA! My god!you sure do sound 15,or wait no,scratch that-13…
      Your post is absolutely filled with arrogance,pride and last but not least ignorance at its highest level-honey,if you really feel secure and intelligent enough to debate the issue in a paragraph that long,than how about you make an effort and realize teenage is just a stage of your life,nothing more nothing less,and it only lasts for- hmm about 6 years on average?After that my love,you start becoming one of those things you call “sagging old woman that hasn’t got as much to offer to the average man”…you may feel content looking down on those women right now and having that fake sense of superiority but darling it wont last long believe me-more so if thats the only place your confidence comes from….Keep seeing things the way you do right now,and youll get to 26 and feel crushed like a bug noone needs.And you cant honestly believe that men(sick enough)to go for teenagers are actually into their personalities and fun ways can you?well sure if the man in the question has an underdeveloped brain or suffers from long term childhood issues,by all means,if you get ur kick from that,than eh,who am i to judge?
      Now can i ask you a question?given that your so happy with yourself being all”young looking with firm skin,gorgeous body blah blah” do you personally enjoy getting hit on by men twice your age?do you honestly get some sort of satisfaction when that old guy on the train thats old enough to be your dad gives you the subtle “up and down”,or when ur friends dad is being flirty with you?…..hmmm,im 16 and i do get hit on a LOT by older men-and in all honesty in 90% of those cases i felt 1.disgusted 2.angry 3.regret for any potential wives/kids those men might have…..From a teenager’s point of view,i dont believe being a man in ur forties/thirties(or hell,even twenties) and getting sexually aroused from a human being thats still growing,developing and faces a hell of alot of emotional/sexual confusion etc is normal.Im not gonna express any gratitude or admiration for those men out there who go”its fine with just having a fantasy but not acting on it”-excuse me SIR,but do you have a daughter yourself?picture her doing graphic x-rated stuff with your very friendly neighbour thats thrice her age!sick isnt it?well chances are,if the man(neighbour)is a sick mineded creep those exact images flicker throughout his mind whenever he sees your own daughter ,or well,maybe even when he needs a release if you know what i mean,particularily if your daughter is very attractive.
      I can only sympathise for the women who have to put up with this kind of sick crap from their partners,and can only say that your brains are probably malfunctioning if you choose to sick around anyway.I dont see myself getting to 30 and accepting this kind of horrible treatment from any man-this being said,after reading through some of these replies,im quite scared of hitting 30 actually….
      I see things from a biblical point of view and believe that even if you dont act out your feelings,having them is just as bad….theres a quote in the bible that states”wanting another mans woman is like comitting adultery with her in your heart”….and i strongly believe self control is vital to human beings.YES accepting you may have a problem is fine,but then the only logical step to take from my point of view is to try and cope with it and restrain it,not just accept it and make it part of your everyday life.
      To all these women out here even in their twenties (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!),your very right to think your personality has so much more to offer,but very wrong to believe your looks can by no means compete in the situation…..i believe someone whose beautiful AND vain will stay beautiful throughout……this being said,i must admit,i HAVE found myself being attracted to older men,yes im not entirely able to judge,yet i never thought i could ever compete with their wives/gf’s and frankly,if they looked at me back,id most definetly think there was a problem.

  264. Oh yes, I was 15 once too. I could have fucked every hour of the day if I really wanted to do that. Even now, I get hit on by guys half my age….

    Since turning 40 I have had the pleasure of being loved for my intellect, my interests, my compassion and passion for life, my concern for others and my desire to make the world a better place.

    When I look into the eyes of someone who loves my spirit and heart there is absolutely no comparison with someone who is just looking at my tits and ass. There is an endless supply of men who will fuck you…. At least half the men on the planet I would say…

    Very few who will actually SEE you for who you really are and love what they see.

    • well said kysha430
      Although Arnisha may be right with her comments about firm skin and smooth body etc. (and goodness knows we’d all like to have that body back again). I have come to appreciate my wife and her now voluptuous (spelling?) body. No she is not terribly overweight, just filled a little more. Her breasts are not as perky and firm but they are still as sensitive as ever. Her wisdom and movements for my needs are more loving than lusting, and I in turn know her needs as well. We share common interests and outings together which deepens our emotional relationship even further. I’m no longer the better looking man I once was but my attraction to appreciate the beauty of women aged over 40 has not waned. there is something beautiful about a woman who looks after herself and still has that twinkle in her eye. And when my wife gives that little smile and a wink, I’m there.

  265. Actually it’s because men want to imagine a female that hasn’t been mentally destroyed by feminazism, the gay agenda, the communitarian propaganda of the public school system and it’s Frankfort School indoctrinated teachers, fashionistas and all the other “istas” and “isms” vying for young female’s attention and soul.

    • oh really?i strongly hope you speak for yourself and not the entire male species-for if so im going gay.

  266. have an open mind to pornography and don’t have a problem with my husband surfing the sites, he is 20 years older than me and has always been a ladies man….
    well.. thought i was okay w/ it until i looked at the ones he was visiting, very prepubescent, dressed like children, looking 11 to 14 tops, sexual poses with sickening older men old enough to be their grandfathers, sites titled “younger babes” “innocent dream” “holli paige” “solo wet teen” this is disturbing because he was accused years (before i knew him,he hid this from me) ago in 2 different states of having relations w/ underage students while teaching in public schools, he only had his license to teach public school revoked no prison time,the victims would not testify, he has anger towards his accusers yet now i wonder, he always acts outraged if i question, love him yet feel sick in my gut,he has said he’s called me “little girl” it has opened some doors to questions about his past.

    • I only feel utter disgust reading through this,and im just so sorry you can actually find in your heart to say you love him.

  267. If your husband is 20 years older than you he has already married a “girl” who began solid food around the time he could purchase alcohol. Your marriage can be used against him in court as evidence. He has already solidly proven himself to be a pervert in my opinion. I have photographed as many women nude as you are likely to have seen completely nude. I refuse to photograph a woman 20 years younger than me as it is wrong and abuse of a woman like you who is still able to be fooled into exposing themselves nude for acceptance. I have, however, shot women who are 20-years my senior. I believe that women are like fine wine and become better with age if shown for art. When you are fifty to sixty, your “old man” is likely to be very near death or already dead.

  268. Curtis, I don’t think a 20 year age gap between mates necessarily implies anything dysfunctional, immoral, or illegal. Sometime after my first wife divorced me, she married a man 20 years older than her. In the context of his love for her, she bloomed as a person. The change in her was both visible and an extremely happy one. So I think you might have misjudged such relationships. Some, I know, are rather good.

  269. The FBI estimates there are 240,000 children condemned to sex slavery and pornography in our country (US).

    They just rescued 69 of these “throw away children” and said there were 800 people involved in their trade.

    They were raped several times per day by several different people. Used and thrown away like slabs of meat. As horrible as this is, I cant even imagine how much a person who would harm an innocent child must hate themselves. Must be completely filled to the brim with self-disgust, self-loathing and self-hatred.

    To take the life and innocence from a child can only come from such a dark horrendous place within that I cant even imagine. No punishment could match being raped repeatedly as a child and no punishment could match the depravity of the one commiting such acts.

    You who do these things are only digging the hole of self-hatred deeper with every act.

    Please, set these innocent children free! Give them a chance for a life you will never have!

  270. here comes the spanner..
    i was abused aged 8!
    Now 32 and having been through a similar situation six years or so ago i find myself being concerned of what i have recently discovered. My partner and i watch porn together on occasion but more so this year. I’m okay in general with him viewing teens, i know about it and we are very open about what we do when we are alone.
    I let him click on a few movies and was rather shocked at what he chose.
    There is the one thing that has not been mentioned in this debate by all of these ladies that are concerned, and that is the size of the girls that men are looking for. It was mentioned how they look young but everyone failed to point out that some of the teens look like children because of their body shape and size or lack of.
    That is my only concern that there is very little distiction between a few of these tiny teens and the shape of kids and it’s down to the site moderator to decide what is legal.
    That said.. ladies on the board, do not let it consume you, men do it and it has nothing to do with you. You can only hope and tell yourself that it is legal. If you feel undesirable because of it then make yourself feel desirable, look after yourself and be independant. That includes looking after your own sexual health, masturbation is stress relieving for everyone so this also has some bearing on this question. Men also like a woman that have other stuff to do. HE will be the one that is concerned and busy asking you questions.
    Over and above all trust your instinct and if you have to face the problem, dont prolong it as that can make you ill.
    Some great constructive thought has gone on here, and im really pleased i read it and hopefully you will accept my insight for what it is.

  271. Hi
    For a couple of years I have been slowly winning my personal fight against porn. Now at age 55 one might think I should be ‘over the hill’ from such hormone enraging stuff. But my attraction has only been recent, though may have been ‘planted’ in my youth. When I was 17 my parents had divorced and I spent a lot of time with my friends after school without parental guidance. I leant about sex and the female body from looking at porn and the occasional girl who we ‘shared’ as friends. When it came time to have sex with the girl I just couldn’t do it. But I really enjoyed her nakedness and the beauty of the female body. So I never actually had sex at anytime before I was married. Now 40 odd years later I’m married to a woman who is going through menopause and its associated dryness. She hates lubricants and we can’t have sex if she can’t get’ aroused’ naturally. Porn is out of the question as I’ve seen men lose everything because of porn. Besides, my wife will have no part of it and i tend to agree. Other forms of sex are taboo as well. thank you for your ideas and thoughts.
    Johndoe
    Having looked at myself from the inside maybe there are some things that might help

  272. Perhaps you could set aside a whole day to slowly woo her. Pretend it’s her first time. How would you approach her? Go for a walk in nature, hold hands, have a romantic dinner, talk about something she is passionate about. Let her know how much you appreciate her. Kiss her eyelids.

  273. Johndoe,

    There’s no need to be surprised or embarrassed that you have a strong sexual drive at your age. So does virtually every other 55 year old man. It’s not something confined to teenagers or something that we grow out of.

    It’s understandable and regrettable that you and your wife have different levels of sexual desire. I’m with kysha430. It sounds like you’re accepting the changes that menopause brings. Now you just need to adjust what you expect from your sexual relationship.

    I’d leave it at that, but I have to say that in my experience, the only people who have major trouble with porn are the ones who believe for religious or other reason that it will cause trouble. (Or if their partners believe this to be true.) It’s the fear and guilt that some people associate with porn that causes trouble, not the porn, not our interest in it. Everyone else treats porn like a mostly harmless indulgence like chocolate cake or doughnuts and they manage their consumption well enough.

    Having said that, it is possible to masturbate without porn if you have objections to porn. Being able to satisfy your own sexual needs without relying on your partner will take a lot of pressure of your partner. I’m sure going through menopause is difficult enough without also feeling like you’re letting your partner down. When you do come together, things can be more pleasurable because your relationship is less stressful.

  274. I really have to drop in on this discussion, as a 55-year-old woman who occasionally dries out on “bad hormone days” but made plaster sift down from the ceiling last night during an hour or so specifically orchstrated to avoid painful friction on reticent membranes. Johndoe, I call BS on any woman who won’t have anything to do with lubricants (there are some that deserve hate, but that is what sex shops like Good Vibrations are for) and won’t consider any other “form of sex.” What could be nicer and more thoughtful than giving a long hand-job to someone you love if the rest of you isn’t really up to the task tonight? (See: lube, above.) And I would absolutely hogtie any man who tried the Harlequin Romance long-walk-romantic-dinner number on me. Gack!

    The myth of “the porn that ate my life” is one of the current ridiculous social memes that I hope we outgrow. I have only a mild interest in filmed sex, but it can be amusing and instructive. There is plenty of porn made by people who are well treated and decently compensated (it is the kind of thing you will find at upscale, online sex stores, as referenced above). Some sold by Blowfish.com is “real couple” porn (I’ve only seen clips). So if you are not getting any sex in your marriage, only some Dr. Phil type would fault you for enjoying what you can, with the same caution you would use buying or using anything, in other words, was someone exploited so you could have it? Are you spending too much money on it or letting it take up too much time? People can do the same thing with toy fire trucks or video games (I’ve had relationships stressed by both habits).

    Read Marty Klein (Paul here links to his Sexual Intelligence newsletter), read Annie Sprinkle and Jack Morin and Nina Hartley, read about how real people handle their sexual obstacles, not about the way that some ideal pair of counselees sail off into the soft-focus sunset. Read Dan Savage, who may be a “gay sex columnist” but is over and over on target about the only realistic solutions to unions where there are sexual disagreements.

    I was in a relationship for years with a guy who was reluctant and stingy in bed and turned out to be getting all his jollies looking at cheesy Internet sites featuring — get this — OLDER women than myself, because real sex was “too much work.” A good, moral man in many ways, but one who never grew up. The problem was with him and not with the existence of the porn or even his exposure to it; hell, I wish he’d been willing to do some of the same things with me that were happening in the photos he downloaded (and forgot to clear the location bar, dolt).

    As for teenage girls, which is where the discussion started, I echo those who say the only offense would be approaching one in real life or patronizing people who have coerced young girls into exhibiting themselves. Who wouldn’t at least privately admire a pretty young person of either sex from time to time? I speak as someone who played back the bubble bath scene with Daniel Radcliffe in “Harry Potter And The Goblet Of Fire.”

    Jeez, this is not rocket science.

  275. Thank you for your insights.

    The ball is in my court and although I am adjusting to my wifes’ ‘limited’ sex drive and menopause swings, I still get frustrated with my own desires and drive etc. I get a headache just thinking about it! So sometimes I just ignore it,find another activity and hopefully avoid the teen/mature porn as well. In some peoples eyes my encounter with porn is relatively tame compared to some. The mere viewing of a naked woman happly posing, can lead from one pic to another and is enough to drain the desire from me without masturbation. I don’t need more perverse images, just an attractive naked woman who enjoys whatever she is doing I guess. It all affects me mentally/emotionally as well. If my wife were to actually want an intimate time I can’t comply with her request because my mind is caught up with images of other women. If i could get my wife to be a little sexy and seductive that maybe enough for me. A bit of spontenaity would be great as well but i guess it’s all tied up with sex drive etc.

    thanks for your posts, I’ll check in every now n then.

  276. Hi
    my wife and I had a spontaneous moment this morning and wife does not do mornings for love-making! Not to go into details but she usually prefers nights because there’s less chance of interruption from daughter who lives at other end of the house. But this morning the sun was shining through our bedroom windows as we cuddled and kissed (I was trying to create a prelude for this evening, the expectation of a romantic evening of sorts which she enjoys at times) when one thing led to another we actually had a beautiful interlude. No sex, but it was a stimulating experience and to see her naked gave me such a thrill (as I said, wife normally prefers nights with the lights out and all I can see is a fuzzy outline). I use my hands as a second set of eyes which is nice and sensual but I prefer sight AND touch I guess.

    I am going to try some quiet meditation,prayer or something similar to learn to focus away from the times I feel in less control of my porn attraction, even though it may have been only once a week or sometimes only once a month. Still I want to stay right from anything that takes my attention away from my wife in a sexual way. Having read some of the many entries above I realise I can’t change my wife, only myself. I can perhaps be a little more suggestive to my wife of my desires without forcing her into something outside her moral limits. Suggestion and sharing thoughts on this subject has not been a strong point of our marriage but needs to be addressed. When i’ve spoken to my partner about the menopause in the past it has been largly a shrug of the shoulders but we had a little chat and she has agreed to see the family doctor if I go with her so she doesn’t feel embarressed, DONE! Maybe he can talk to her about the dryness etc. I have no doubts he’ll have a few words of advice for me as well which i will need to do.
    I want nothing more to do with the porn if I can help it. It has been a release for me at times and has built desires of ‘exploratory sex’ in me (my wife would never do 99% of those things seen on porn sites, hell she has trouble touching my penis) but it also takes my thoughts away from the woman I was so attracted to at age 22 (I was 25). Sure, she isn’t a slim vibrant 22year old with a sexy body and perky breasts but I’m not Olando Bloom either. I am in need of a reality check (I am grateful I at least have a willing partner (of sorts)) but I need to adjust my sex limits for awhile. Learn patience.

  277. Men look at teen nudity because a girl in her teens is more attractive than a woman in her 30s and 40s. They have firmer bodies, a more youthful skin and aren’t as saggy as older women. Thats as simple as it gets.

  278. Hi Im a 23 year old who used to be an exotic dancer. I danced from the ages of 18 through to 22. I did so too survive, as i was kicked out of home, just a note before you judge. Also if there are spelling mistakes in my reply, dont be nasty please im not TRYING to be intelligent spelling isnt my strong point, im a very successful figure competitor and personal trainer not an editor. Iv always been fascinated by what men find attractive, be it age, hair color, personality, body shape. I took great notice of this during my time as a dancer so i can certainly shed some light on the subject.
    When i was 18 and dancing, id say i was abused alot more than i was when i was at say 22. Men could see i was young and that i hadn’t yet developed a hardness about me and i just could not say “fuck off”” i was to shy and innocent. They used to say very insulting objectifying rude things to me when i was 18, i was spat at swore at, had cigarettes butted out on my butt. I tried to capitalise on the fact i was young by calling myself lolita, but it didnt work for me with the men that spent the most on me, id end up giving them a fake real name like Lara, say. Work got easier as i got older. Once i got to say 20, i could sit with a man for hours on end with my clothes on (stripper attire offcourse lol) and make thousands out of just talking. See i couldn’t do that at 18, at 20 i commanded more respect and had alot more to talk about. I remember noticing allot of older dancers, and by older i mean between say 22 through to 35 making alot more than the 18 year olds, the 18 year olds couldn’t handle themselves. THAT BEING SAID, men did like it when they found out i was young. They saw me as somebody they could “mould”or “save”and offcourse id play on that. I think men like the intellect of an older woman but dred the baggage that will come with her, they all said things like, “cant teach an old dog new tricks” about dancers that were say above 35. I had one client i met when i was 21. He was say 60 and a millionaire business man. But he wasnt attracted to my youth, his previous girlfriend was 40 years old. He liked my wittiness and my cruel comebacks to his strong advances. He also loved the fact id already bought 2 houses by the age of 21, so i obviously was investing my money wisely, not on a drug habit as stereotype would have it. I worked out that since he was important and bossed people around all day he wanted i woman who could hold her own in his personal life, i dont think he could get that from an 18 year old. In my opinion no matter if you are old, fat tall short, black white, somebody out there will think you are beautiful. Proven fact. My Husband of almost 2 years now whom i met at work interestingly enough, always tells me he cant wait till i hit 30, and when he met me at 21, he was a lil disturbed by my age as he was 38 at the time. But he looked past that and has “moulded” me into a wife and normal woman. I might add he is also very wealthy, but i didnt know this when we met, we eloped 10 days later, and a month after that i discovered he had all this property! Just my luck, seeing as i was never a gold digger in my personal life, i never cared, what the man i was dating made because i considered myself rich at 22. Blush…
    Sorry to go of subject but its just interesting to see who gets where in life. I think woman shouldn’t be intimidated IF their man looks at younger woman, men will always stare at woman/girls (i wont say beauty because somtimes men notice woman who aren’t text book “beauty”)its life. Im defiantly aware of aging and im fine with that on the inside, i just take care of myself now so i dont look older than my years on the outside. I think phedophilia is a disturbing fetish as it breaks innocence and destroys young life, that’s why we talk about teen porn. But everybody is right in saying that just as many men like, Milf/fat chicks/asian/s&m. different strokes for different folks. Its not ok in my opinion when the girls are younger than say 16. I think if men do find girls younger than say 16 sexually attractive they should restrain their glances because she is not nearly a woman.

  279. WHAT A LOAD OF SHIT. Youth is beautiful, yes, but you are still youthful and beautiful when you are of legal age (19-25). Its the fact that men look at underaged girls who look about 12,13,14, which is the majority of men by the way, that has most of us wondering. This excuse of “oh perky breasts, soft skin, tight bodies” is a load of crap considering you still have those well into your 20’s. So MEN, really, spare the bullshit here and tell us REALLY why you prefer a girl looking kind of like a child? The obviousness in the physical form of their bodies that they are literally JUST developing. Thats the real perversity of this topic. Young women are more beautiful, yes that is a fucking fact, but the fact that you’d rather look at a girl who looks like a child and has the body of a girl who is just beginning to develop, then a woman who is still very young, smooth, and pert, but of age and fully developed, is whats disturbing here. I think there is something men are not telling us.

    • Wow! You really are upset. First of all, you speak as if all men are into “child Porn” This thread was about men looking at teens. Men can only look at legal aged teens on the net, so you’re wrong to suggest any site using the word teen is full of underage girls, when it simply isn’t.

      As for men looking at any female who presents as an adult, what on earth can’t you understand about that? If a girl dresses to attract, that’s what will happen.

      Men are attracted to females, age has nothing to do with why they look, it’s sexiness, beauty, whatever, but all the men I know who have found themselves attracted to what turns out to be a child, would more or less agree, the moment they become aware the object who caused their distraction is underage, they can’t get out of there fast enough.

      In this world everyone should be able to present as they wish, but there are consequences when a developed female child dresses as a woman, especially when that dressing creates an image of an older person. That child will attract attention to themselves, by men who don’t realise her age until they get close.

      I do not want to suggest Muslim Robes, but I want you as a woman to understand, many men are looking at a fine figure of a woman, they stop the moment they see that image is hiding a child.

      Please don’t throw a blanket of shame over all men because of the horrific crimes of a few.

  280. I am an 18 year old girl. I have never watched porn, nothing against it, it just makes me realize how ugly I am naked. My assumption as to why men look at teens would be the simple fact yhat society says not to. Why do teens drink? Cause its illegal. So older men desire what they cannot have. And yes, i think its gross. I would willingly date a much older man, but not if he only wanted my body. I wouldn’t date anyone who just wanted my body, obviously. I don’t know if genetics are involved in this, it sounds like a cop out to me, but I guess it makes sense. I think a LEGAL teen is just as fertile as an illegal one though, but it seems men go for the illegal ones… I was sexually abused as a child, and I feel no emotional scars, so I always assumed that when you get your period, you are ready for sex. I know everyone isn’t that fortunate to not suffer from abuse years later, but maybe men’s genes tell them to go for young fertile kids. I am contradicting myself… but I truly believe men thrive on stealing innocence and breaking laws.

    • Yours is a well balanced and very understanding post.

      All you have said has merit.

      BUT, the law which all men are fully aware of, is put in place to protect young people, not only from others, but themselves.

      We all felt horny as young people, some of us from as young as 8 years old or even younger.

      The law isn’t about spoiling peoples fun, it’s about protecting people from the “consequences” of that fun; consequences it knows we were all far too young to appreciate when we found ourselves wanting to do things we knew were forbidden, but which our bodies strongly opposed.

      It’s the very people who lack the control required to stay within the law that this thread is about. This is what is causing the concern of most who have posted.

      Men look at attractive underage females, most just say to themselves, “she’s going to grow into a very attractive girl when she’s older”, so yes, they’re thinking sexually, but not in the moment, they’re just looking at that child in her future.

      Men looking at teens is not as black and white as some have interpreted things to be.

      There are dangers to young girls out there, most of those dangers come from some males, but not all males.

  281. I totally agree with Brandy. I think men are just inclined to destroying things, breaking laws and stealing innocence.

  282. it could bring them back to the time when they were in sexual prime guys have it younger and women have it when they are older personally i think its gods way of balancing it out if we were in sexual prime at same age think how much more overpopulated the world would be

  283. I just happened upon this blog randomly and it really pulled me in. I too have bookmarked it, this is one of the few intelligent and open minded discussions on this topic i have found. I have often asked myself, what is it I find so interesting about females in their late teens early 20s. My best relationships are in that area, though I find some women older than myself very compelling. Sela Ward… Hello! lol But seriously, when i date close to or my age 41, it tends to feel more like i’m with a guardian. Always having to be proper. If that makes sense. Whereas, with the younger ones. I let it all out. All the things i feel the need to repress, i’m me at max potential so to speak. Ironically, I almost never sleep with the younger ones. Having said no many times, to my friends bewilderment. Because, despite some instances of massive sexual attraction. Something inside me just won’t let me. Maybe it’s all being around them that brings me back to a simpler time, when i had all the time in the world to conquer the world. Maybe it’s also the fact that I just like how few walls people have at that age. I’m sure my perceptions distort the truth, like it does for us all, but i would love to hear what you people have to say.

    be nice,i.m trying to get out years of thoughts without boring everyone to tears.

    i know life needs to be serious sometimes. But I think it should be full of passion and openess :)

    PS Great blog!!!!!

    • Hi Lance! Thanks for your kind words!

      Yours is a very interesting take on it. I don’t recall anyone else has expressed quite the same perspective, but it makes sense. There was a time, when I was about your age, that I frequented a coffee shop that was the hang out for about 400 young men and women. I got to know a lot of them. It surprised me how easily both the men and the women accepted me and to what extent they were non-judgmental. Or, if not entirely non-judgmental, at least they were not sizing me up as marriage potential. Maybe that’s got something to do with it.

  284. I think you both bring up some interesting points.

    Even though I do not wish to have children, I and many women I know, seem to feel our purpose in life is to nurture and grow communities, families, businesses, schools and society as a whole.

    I think we want partners who will help us fulfill our purpose to nurture and support life.

    I also think society is changing and the expected roles of men may be too rigid to accomodate some of the change that is happening.

    Perhaps you find some satisfaction in interacting with and giving guidance and friendship to some of these young people?
    I have had some amazing male teachers who expressed this purpose in their roles as teachers.
    There are many men though, who exploit young people in order to fulfill their need for sexual gratification with no thought about the well-being of the young people they exploit.

    • “Perhaps you find some satisfaction in interacting with and giving guidance and friendship to some of these young people?”

      My therapist would agree with you, Kysha. For some reason, I was blind to that side of me until he pointed out that I had behaved towards those kids at the coffee shop more like a teacher or counselor than I was aware of.

      But at the time, I didn’t see myself that role because I was much too narrowly defining what a teacher or counselor does. e.g. I didn’t lecture the kids or give them tests, so how could I be teaching them much of anything?

      I don’t think I made a very good teacher or counselor, though, but that seems to have nevertheless been how I largely related to the young men and women at the coffee shop.

  285. I’m 63, I’ve noticed the alleged teens on the Net are all over 20 and possibly up to their mid 30’s, it depends upon the girl and her looks as to how old she appears.

    Now as for what men like to look at as far as the age of a female is concerned, we will look at any attractive female regardless of age.

    I don’t think age has anything to do with what men look at, it’s that initial attractiveness or sexiness, the way a dress hangs on the body of the female, a bit of exposed flesh, a heart melting smile, gorgeous eyes, or lovely hair, legs, butt, breast, whatever the male is into or attracts his attention.

    Age is the last thing on their minds.

      • Thanks Paul, it’s nice to get a response agreeing with my view for once.

        I don’t argue the site owners do try to make girls look like teens, but as I said, it’s the appeal of the image of the female that catches our attention initially, not her age.

        By the way, I’ve been guilty of being attracted by a young beauty as I’ve driven along the road, but my usual reaction when I finally get close enough to see she’s not much more than a child with the body of a woman, is to usually reprimand myself for being stupid enough to have looked at her in the first instance.

        I mean what on earth is an adult male going to have in common with a teenage girl anyway?

        My belief would be that a young girl would be repulsed by an older man, so the whole concept is more of a fantasy rather than a reality.

  286. Oh well sexual exploitation is another matter I suppose, although I guess it relates to men looking at teens, as the fact it’s known that they do, is a reason for some creep to see the potential of that as a market to ply such wares.

    As for exploitation, we’ve all been victims of that in one way or another.

    I guess it would be nice to live in an ideal world where everyone was respectable and everyone respected each other, but the one we live in sees 10,000 children starving to death every day.

    Kinda makes sexual exploitation pale into insignificance.

    We have destroyed this world and it’s people in so many ways, I have no idea where we need to start to begin its rectification, and I believe those who try, soon become aware of the enormity of the problem and are soon overwhelmed.

    All each of us can do is behave correctly ourselves, and maybe over time we could become the majority and eventually things might change, but with so few with so much power, and so many wishing they were the same, greed, corruption, and power lust, will always win out the way this world is today.

    • I’m a 27 yo woman (slim, attractive and have nice figure) who is recently married (last year) with a 44 yo man. I was a happy married woman until couple months ago i accidentally found some videos in his computer. They were all about wrestling and fighting. Some of them were just playing around and some of them were for real and they were legal aged girl-girl (or lesbians), boy-girl and even pre teen girl-girl (which he downloaded it from youtube). Some videos were clasified porn but only lesbians scenes not the teens.

      When the first time i confronted to him he told me that sometimes men just need “visualizations” and men like to see young girls (yes,he’s honest man and talk straight to the point even when he talks about this thing to me) he didn’t say that he didn’t like adult porn videos but he said that the videos that i mentioned above could make him more stimulate. He wanted me to not feel insecure and asked for my understanding. I personally don’t mind if he looks at adult porn videos but since the videos inlvolved teen girls (although it’s not a porn) i do feel insecure and worried. We’ve been facing few arguments but after that we both decided to get over it eventhough i still feel insecure, uncomfortable, and disturbed by those videos.

      Few days ago, i found (again) 2 new videos. I knew he didn’t mean to save them on the computer because after the first confrontation to him i knew everytime he downloads or watches that kind of videos he does it secretly or saved them in his flash disk so in this case i assumed he forgot to delete them from his computer. Anyway, one of the videos is about early teen girls fighting each other and to me they’re look like 13 or 14 yo. That was the first time i saw he saved the video of really early teen girls.

      I talked to him about it and (again) he accused me that i was over reacting and over negative thinking. I told him that i was afraid of his obbsession about young girls but he told me to stop having that nasty thought and stop thinking that he’s a bad person just because all of those videos. He said he’s not perfect but he’s not a bad person either. He wants me to think as a mature woman and asked me to give space for his privacy

      Do you think i’m too worried and exaggerate about those videos? especially for the last video that i saw. Like i told you i don’t mind adult porn videos or anything that involved legal aged girls doing but i do feel uncomfortable with early teen girls.

      Until now, My husband is nice to me, caring and likes to tell me how much he loves me and he likes to show his affection to me but i’m afraid if that would disappear after i have baby and i’m getting old and my figure would be drastically changed. When i asked him one day if he finds women in their 40s attractive he said as long as they have nice looking appearances then all men will fine them attractive. But obviusoly i’m thinking that young girls way more attractive to him.

      I grew up with east culture background and i have bad relationship with my dad because he likes to cheat on my mom with girls that way younger than his age. I didn’t have issue with jealousy or possessiveness but i must admit after the first time i saw those videos i became more jealous and possissive. Do you think my background affects me mentally and emotionally when i have to deal with my husband’s habit?

      Do i exaggerate about the vidoes and act irrationale? or should i be worried of my husband’s habit? there some people who say that as long as men just see it and not touch it then there is nothing to be afraid of, is it the same for my case?

  287. how do i not think of my “significant other” as a pedophile for looking at nude teens, they are children and i have a daughter, that bothers me of how he will look at her friends when they become teenagers!

    • OK, there are sites called teen sites, but the alleged teens are all over age.

      It’s not legal to put underage girls on the Internet, and any site which does this would soon be closed down, so if your husband is looking at younger models, they’ll all be of legal age.

      Seriously, this is all being blown way out of proportion.

      It’s perfectly acceptable for any male to look at a girl of legal age.

      I believe this whole thread is confusing child porn, with legal but younger looking models.

      Men will always look at attractive females who project the image of an adult woman. The majority of men will soon look away when it becomes evident the female who has caught their attention is underage.

      I seriously believe there far too much paranoia associated with something which has existed since time in memoriam.

  288. Young is relative to the age of the observer.

    I’m 63, so young to me would be under 50 I suppose, though I’m having difficulty seperating attractive from young. I’ll always admire beauty no matter what age it comes in. When I say that, I’m talking about the superficial attractiveness.

    Personally, I’d have great difficulty coping with a teen, or even a person under say 35, because intellectually, maturity wise, we’d have very little in common.

    I do think there are far too many insecure people on this planet which is why so many seem to have a problem with their husbands looking at naked pictures on their computers.

    There isn’t a man alive who will not be attracted to the image of a naked female. Any man who says that’s not true is a liar.

    When it comes to underage, it’s been my experience the majority of men may look, but they also know not to touch.

    It’s the image of beauty, perfection, which attracts a glance, it’s not at all a sexual thing when an attractive child gets a mans attention.

    Seriously, it’s about time everyone settled down and stopped being so paranoid. I get the impression most women have driven their men to the computer, and the more they make a fuss about it, the more men will want to sit at their computers.

    Psychology is required here. Instead of handing your husbands the weapon of knowing it upsets you to see him looking at naked images on his computer, why not join him and pretend you like it as well. Once that fruit is no longer forbidden, he’ll soon lose interest, and you’ll have no reason to be concerned.

    Equally, whilst it’s only a small part of the relationship, women do need to be a lot more involved sexually. Yes I know you’re tired after holding down a full time job, taking care of children and all that goes with running a home, I know I’m being very unfair, very sexist, but seriously, men want their partner to indulge in sexual activities, if that doesn’t happen, naturally, they’ll look for an alternative way of amusing themselves sexually.

    That having been said, I think women should consider themselves lucky all their husbands are doing is looking at pictures on line, surely that has to be better than him having an affair? OR even worse, wanting you to engage in more regular sex, lol.

    Far too many men are relieving themselves on line, simply because of womens naivity regarding men and their sexual appetites. Those appetites are driven by the belief sex isn’t available, or the man respecting you too much to dare ask you to engage in whatever his fantasies may be.

    It’s a difficult road to walk, and it hasn’t been helped in any way by the insane preachings of many religious groups who seem hell bent on demonising any other kind of sexual activety either prior to marriage or especially involving anything more than missionary.

  289. Listen ladies, some men are just plain lazy. They do not want to do the work it takes to make sure a woman is really turned on and enjoys herself.

    They do not want to address the relationship issues that interfere with sexual arousal.

    They just want to sit there looking at a screen at someone who reminds them of the time sex was most exciting to them.

    It is either that or TV or sports.

    They are just plain lazy so do not take it personally.

  290. I’m full of links these days. Here’s a podcast interviewing a prominent sex therapist about porn and masturbation which is aimed at the concerns that many women have expressed here. Make sure to listen to the whole thing because the last part is where she addresses how pornography can be hurtful to a relationship.

    http://mormonstories.org/?p=1506

  291. This is very bemusing. But an interesting read nonetheless.

    Ok I will bite.

    I remember having a crush on girls much older than me when I was not yet in college. Even from the age of 7-11 I would crush on the babysitter (mid to late teens) all the time. Of course I was always aware of beautiful women of other ages too. But it seemed that the compelling age of mid to late teens didn’t change once I myself was much older.

    In fact it only grew having more dealings with older women and lesser dealings with girls of my sweetheart memories. It might be said my fondness grew in the absence of beautiful girls because of the fact that one surrounded by mature women often leaves an appreciation and longing for something else. Having said that, its interesting that even in boyhood, teenagehood and adulthood… my ideal image of feminine perfection was always a constant age bracket or mid to late teens.

    Whats more interesting is that a study I read a few years ago also corroboreates this. It found that males from age 7-99 that were shown slides of female faces all agreed upon an ideal mean average age of 17. So I am sure there are very definite biological motivators for this, not just the dismissive feminist psychobabble about youth vs power. Because had that been the case then young males would logically not gravitate towards 17ish girls as their preferred ideal, especially when they are not yet teens themselves.

  292. this is something i’ve grappled with for a long time. i believe it is somewhat of a grey area. i am 33, my boyfriend is 42. he doesn’t even do internet porn, but his choice for porn magazines is barely legal. i have 2 separate issues with it. we’ve gotten in many fights/discussions about this and i have cried and gotten angry, i admit. i am not anti-porn and i am a feminist, but certain types of porn skeeve me out, especially teenage porn. i am aging, he is older than me, and it honestly does strike a blow to my self esteem. many people say it’s just a fantasy, but in my case the fantasy became a reality.

    when we first met, i was 23 and he was 32. i thought he was 28 or 29 because he is boyish looking. i have never dated anyone with this age gap before now. long story short, we had an on-again off-again relationship for a year. he exhibited many mixed feelings towards me. then we cemented things and he said he wanted to be committed to me, and our relationship lasted about 3 years. we broke up when i was 26 and he was 35. literally a week later, i was replaced with a 19 year old girl. so for me, barely legal has represented more than just “fantasy.”

    anyway, we didn’t speak for a few years and after they broke up, we got back together awhile later (something i never thought would happen.) i think our sexual bond is quite strong and enduring. by then i was 29 and he was 38. i did grow a lot in those years, and while i discovered he had a new barely legal magazine, and it did bother me, just because i find it gross…girls with pigtails and teddy bears who look 16, even if they’re technically legal creep me out. i know what it’s like to be an 18 year old girl…they may be legal in the eyes of the law to be porn actresses (in a patriarchal society, i might add), but i do believe a gut feeling says a lot.

    anyway, i overlooked it when we first got together, because at the time we had frequent, amazing sex. we always had, but it was even better the second time around. fast forward to a few years later…both of us has gained weight, but whose interest in sex has flagged? not mine, but his. still he masturbates fairly regularly, so when i am there and he doesn’t want me, it does hurt. that being said, we have sex 1-2 times a week MOST of the time. on the weeks where we don’t have any, i get very upset. now, in my case it wasn’t a mere fantasy was it? i was already 9 years younger, and still in my mid-20s, and i was left for a teenager. just wanted to re-clarify that to point out that maybe this issue is not so black and white as many men want to say it is…

    getting back together wasn’t always easy. we have our baggage (this is a lot of it) and i feel more deeply loved by him than i did before. i know men and women are different, but it is still a crushing blow to be a woman with large breasts and full hips and to be left for a stick straight 19 year old. as well as the attraction to barely legal magazine. he says he loves me and would rather be with me than jerk off to porn anyday. the problem is, as time has gone on, he wants sex less, while i have remained about the same. i’d be happy with 2-3 times a week.

    i have read countless things about this, and tried to swallow the heartless comments by men (like a few on this blog) who state young, hot women will alwyas be hotter. i’ve read sex-positive sites for women, and honestly have gotten more into porn than ever before. but the porn i watch is people having sex who look 23+, whereas he is looking at pin-ups of girls who look anywhere from 14-20. i believe there is a difference. just like i do not like all mainstream american films, i find most mainstream porn, like barely legal, lame and boring and barely legal i find disturbing.

    i can actually thank him for my forays into porn for myself more, to be honest. that being said…many of the men on here make comments like “younger women are firmer and hotter. just the way it is.” it makes any women who is aging or who will age for that manner (all of us) feel kind of useless and shitty. women who are gold-diggers get all kinds of shit, but men attracted to young’uns routinely use the “boys will be boys” excuse. maybe i just don’t get men, but it feels like i am getting the short end of the stick, so to speak. but i am trying to understand. i am occasionally attracted to other men, but like my tastes in food, music, movies, etc, my tastes in men mature as i mature. with many men, they tend to stay the same. that’s what i don’t understand.

    i do not want to fight with my boyfriend and i love him dearly. barely legal hits me in a visceral spot which is highly disturbing, but also i was essentially left for a “barely legal” person. so perhaps my feelings are doubly reinforced? i would like to get past this…if i speak of it, we end up fighting and he tells me i want to control him, but i don’t. i feel like i have to “Suck it up” so to speak. if i was a woman who wasn’t interested in sex that much, i could understand, but i love sex and want it a lot…i’m probably at my sexual peak. he even said that i am the best sex he’s ever had (and i feel the same way.) but something does not compute. i try to be a fairly non-judgmental and open-minded person, and maybe it’s the baggage talking, but when i see those magazines, and especially the written text, which almost bothers me even more than the photos, i get a really sick feeling in my stomach. i’ve asked for a compromise but he refuses. so basically, for awhile things are ok, and then the issue rears it’s ugly head again. insight would be appreciated. sorry for writing such a novel, but this has been an issue lately and it’s really upsetting to me. thanks in advance for kind and understanding replies, if anyone has any.

    in the end, it comes down to…your TYPE of porn is more important than my feelings. the porn for men out there is endless. i do want to point out, he said he likes it because it’s more “interesting” (what that means, i don’t know) and because they are more natural and less airbrushed…but in this day and age, can’t you find that without the girls with flat chests and gangly bodies? i think you can. i admit i am insecure, but i feel i am being lied to, to an extent, and i just don’t know what to do. i would like to find a happy medium, but it seems impossible.

    • So if you really are willing to improve your sex life and your relationship with your husband than there is a way. but it requires you to embrace what you are uncomfortable about. i would suggest that you go purchase a cheerleader outfit and get a thin corset that squeezes your boobs down too. go get some skin cream and some makeup and make yourself look young (pink is a great lipstick color for that). keep on the outfit, don’t get naked during sex, maintain the illusion. just do the dirty schoolgirl thing and take off your underwear. embrace his fantasy.

      guys are biologically hardwired to seek out physical beauty, and the BIGGEST indicator of physical beauty is youth. youthful appearance wins out over any other physical trait in all cultures with all men. well there are exceptions, but there are also people who are sexually attracted to dogs more than people, these types of people do not represent the norm. the norm is for men to be attracted to girls in their mid teens when it comes to physical sexual attraction. and we are all (with rare exceptions) hardwired for this type of attraction.

      quit trying to fight it. just go with it. you don’t have to be young, you only have to appear young. this is not as difficult as you make it out to be. just get a “seventeen” magazine and look at what the models are wearing. what type of makeup do they use? what type of clothes do they wear?

      now think back to your childhood, what type of stuff did you do in your mid teens? replicate that, replicate the young look, replicate the young actions. that is what the men are attracted too. embrace the fetish and gain your happy sex life back. and keep in mind that when the sex is over he wants to talk to you, not some stupid girl in her mid teens that doesn’t know shit about the world. you are then better than the barely legal girl.

      women’s desire to be of equal power and the like in society has removed their sex appeal. men are sexually attracted to innocence and needy women. men feel comfortable in a role of being a provider. the feminist agenda has forced men to look at younger and younger girls because the women their age are not attempting to be attractive at all and view being attractive as being oppressed. you are not oppressed when you are seen by men as vulnerable. it is a feminist lie that is prevalent in society that women should be strong. but men aren’t attracted to strength, well at least the heterosexual ones aren’t. men who are attracted to the ideals of what feminism tells you to live up to are attracted to men, not women.

      so get over your insecurities and get a cheerleader outfit and some pink lipstick. it will give you pleasure of being attractive again.

      • Um – hardwired? Sorry, but this is the typical excuse of men who don’t want to admit that they could be wrong. There is no known evolutionary precedent to look at girls in their mid-teens, and the very vast majority of men I know have no interest in girls whose breasts and hips are not even fully developed. Men are much more pre-disposed to fully mature women which varies by age of course, but most of us don’t get there until sometime in our 20s. “Seventeen” magazine is geared toward teenage girls, not adult men or women. So any imagery is – again – geared to teenage girls. Not all teenagers are attractive either – lots are chubby, pimply, and awkward, many girls get stretchmarks from their preteen/early teen growth spurts – I can only guess you and others don’t refer to these kids when calling youth beautiful. Most men let themselves go too, not just women, as we get older and our metabolism slows down. So – women are supposed to keep “looking young”? But men don’t need to worry about it? The sexualization of very young girls by porn, media, and the men who continue perpetrating all that simply doesn’t translate to real girls in any real life experience. Most young girls are manipulated or coerced by older men who play on their desire to be beautiful women when they grow up (at least that is what’s happened to every teen I knew growing up who at some point hooked up with an older guy – older being 19-25 at the time). I know lots of gorgeous older women, and a woman who is beautiful at 25 and takes care of herself is still going to be beautiful at 50. Gari’s post below this one is amazing, as far as that whole myth about evolution men like to keep ranting about (I file it with the argument I’ve heard that because of the shape of human teeth we’re not supposed to be vegetarians – completely made up urban mythology).

  293. No sexual proclivity is natural per se. That much is obvious as demonstrated by the vastly changing patterns/standards of beauty over the centuries. Young boys were eroticized in ancient Greece and Rome; today in the West the same happens to young girls. Everything that occurs in society, from slavery to teen porn to violence toward women exhibited in said porn, is determined by the ruling party. For today’s discussion of why men like teens, the answer is that the ruling party happens to be masculine (and for the most part always has been). This is why most men will espouse the normality of the subject matter in this blog. It is to their benefit to do so. And women, who are not the ruling sex, have been conditioned to accept the ruling party’s behavior as “normal” because males have dictated what behaviors are appropriate. There are exhaustive examples of this over time, many focusing on the repression of female sexuality.

    If the ruling party were feminine, that is if women held the means of production, then it is likely that young men would be more celebrated and older men possibly relegated to the margins simply because that situation would be to womens’ collective benefit (eg, younger sperm which have been shown better for reproduction, nice musculature, the fact that younger men will live longer, etc). To some degree, this celebration of the youthful male has been gaining acceptance in recent decades as women gain wealth thereby relying less on the wealth of typically older men (which for socially influenced, nonbiological reasons of inheritance/property ownership/dowry/etc, they have had to do for centuries).

    But most of our desires are socially ingrained; media and porn delivered mainly by men have shaped what we *think* we naturally like, and little of anything can be attributed to the faux field of socio/evolutionary/biology. Many (alleged) brilliant philosophers and scientists have even denounced the field of social biology, for example, Noam Chomsky. In fact, this field is considered by hard scientists to be quite unscientific as it is necessarily based on theory upholding observation rather than observation upholding theory (we cannot conduct a controlled experiment of human life, ie, under 2 conditions).

    For those men who readily call upon the evolutionary model of male behavior as opposed to one based solely on male social power, then evolution would also dictate some level of polyandry and youth-oriented interests from women in certain sociological conditions (such as one of equal wealth). We see this in some but not all societies indicating that something other than pure biology may be at play (this is blatantly obvious isn’t it!). And as less equitable societies (think Middle East) see vastly less polyandry than western societies, it is even more clear that our desires are not necessarily inborn but are a result of the particular social climate that allows, disallows, celebrates, or denounces certain behaviors. And since these desires are disallowed or allowed from youth, it is possible that they can actually alter neurochemistry.

    Anyone whose answer to this blog’s original question relies on what they think is “evolution” is absurdly simplistic and scientists agree the answer is not so simple. Indeed it also does not appear that anyone here has read any scientific text or article on evolution although some claim to know how mankind has behaviorally evolved. Instead, they are quoting pop science articles and exciting NY Times headlines. The question of behavioral evolution is admittedly (by scientists), the most difficult question to answer. Environmental influences at young ages have been shown to unequivocally effect neurochemistry (as mentioned above), potentially conditioning you according to the climate/social environment you were born into. If we are born into an environment where women may be abused and used for pleasure simply because men are largely control of what is viewed as normal, then we may indeed grow to objectify women. If we were born into an alternative environment, we may not. Vastly different behaviors occur across societies and as a result, no particular sexual practice can be deemed “normal.” Most are socially influenced. And our 21st tendency toward teen porn is just one of those many socially influenced behaviors.

    • if you want to understand how humans are hardwired for attraction than the easiest way is to look at chimpanzees and binobos. the next thing to do is to take cross cultural studies of attraction and look at things that are ubiquitous across all cultures in attraction.

      do you know what you find? men and women are both attracted to youthful characteristics. but its not just a primate thing, all mammals are. this is how neotenic traits get passed down over time. this is why subsequent generations of the same species display more pedomorphic characteristics.

      its simple really, its also spread throughout the animal world. humans are primates and we act like sophisticated primates.

  294. Hi
    I am conflicted and confused. I found out recently that my 45-year-old boyfriend has ‘teen porn’ online. He belongs to a porn group on flickr, and 2 out of the 11 groups he belongs to involve the word ‘teen’.

    I know they are supposed to be over 18, but most of them do not look it. Most look like 16-17 year-old-girls (some younger) that are just having fun being teens and have NO idea they are being photographed and put on sites for me to ogle at and masterbate to!

    I have teenage girls — until I accidently came accross the porn, I thought nothing of his relationship to them as his girlfriend’s daughters — but I’ve noticed sometimes when talking to them, he puts a pillow over his crotch.

    I know I am pretty attractive — I notice men give me admiring looks when I am out, and I am interested in having sex with my boyfriend at last 3 TIMES as often as he is! I AM the real thing, and I think the porn stuff may be interferring with our sex life.

    Also, let me say I am not one to be only interested in missionary style – not in the least, and he knows this.

    If I never initiated sex, it would be a lot less than the once a week it is (or less). I even waited two weeks a couple of times to see if he’d initiate.

    What has concerned me terribly in the last few days is that he turned me down, or pretended to be asleep twice in past week, and the next day spent 2 hours on those sites, teen ones included — and I walked in on him – to his COMPLETE surprise.

    I’m confused, conflicted, and hurt.

    What do you think?

  295. Whoever said Miley Cyrus was hot, get real. She’s average, maybe a little above average. She’s ‘do-able’ but not a fantasy girl. lol.

  296. Its all shit. You are in your 40’s, married, with children. You are self centered. Man up. Grow the fuck up. Are you still going to masturbate to this shit when your own daughter is this age? Cause its not all that far off. I am so sick of your weak self indulgent middle aged ass. I repeat, grow the fuck up. Learn what is important before it is too late.

  297. Mary, it’s too easy to accuse people of being immature. I could just as easily say you should grow up and accept that many men are often attracted to young women. “Grow the fuck up and stop making such a big deal about it. Stop with your whiny I’m getting old and insecure about myself nonsense.”

    I could say rather cruel things like that, but that wouldn’t really be fair would it?

    • I agree, Jonathan. This thread would be much more interesting if it there were significantly less politicking going on in it. By which I mean there are way too many accusations and not enough facts. But then, I guess this is the internet. What can I expect?

  298. Lots of interesting perspectives and viewpoints – to add my own:
    1. I agree with the point that genetics have nothing to do with it. If that was the case, women too would be attracted to young (early twenties and younger) men through their sexually reproductive years, because like women, younger men are also more virile reproductively speaking.
    2. The love of a relationship – not sexual attraction alone – can definitely surpass age, as the very wonderful and happy marriage between my young 20s sister and her mid-40s husband shows. No, he does not look at so-called teen porn.
    3. I found pictures of preteens once on my fiancee’s computer. It may cause us to break up – and no, I’m not insecure, or jealous. I don’t feel the need at 30 to compete with women under 20. Since 27 or so, I have entered a stage of wonderful sexuality, reaching still an increased enjoyment of sex that I never knew before – and every woman I’ve talked to about this agrees, our own sexuality starts peaking in our LATE 20s and continues until our early 30-s through – for some at least – mid-50s. Not a single woman I have ever talked to sees her own teenage years or even early 20s as her personal sexual prime.
    3. When I was 26 I had two sexual interactions with an 18-year-old boy. And wow, could he keep going like no man I’ve known over the age of 25. When I was 18, I wouldn’t have been able to keep up with that enthusiasm! If anything, my experience is that older women (25-35) should hook up with younger men, not vice versa. That said, aside from this, I’ve never even thought twice about any guy more than maybe two or three years younger than me, ever in my life. So… hm. Just an experience to share I guess.
    4. I don’t take an issue with porn. I’m 30, never had kids, I’m tall and slim, and every male friend I have – and my fiancee’s friends – have mentioned that I’m attractive. Many have at some point over the years indicated interest in more than friendship, and I generally feel attractive if not beautiful (and yes, like all pretty people I can be vain about it – and I put work into keeping my body in shape through the years). Aside from my fiancee, all the men I’ve been with look at porn. None of them were into teen porn, however. That bothers me because as a female, with three sisters, and all our combined female friends, none of us considered ourselves sexually mature until sometime in our 20s. We – even while teens ourselves, saw ourselves as children still. Why would an adult man want a child? I believe that must stem from being stuck at the emotional age of a teenager, having never continued to grow older.
    Last but not least – almost every single woman on askmen.com’s list of 50 most beautiful women are in their mid-30s, a handful older or younger. These include gorgeous creatures like Angelina Jolie or Cameron Diaz. Getting older does not mean getting uglier, and just being young doesn’t make someone pretty. Most men let themselves go with age – more so than most women I know. So get off your potbellied selves and do some crunches – beauty takes work at any age, and every age can be attractive and beautiful.

  299. Paul, it would seem you don’t edit out the crazies in your commment streams. I like the educator role you assumed for some very tough questions. Kudos… again.

    • Thank you! Every now and then, I catch some crazy who wishes to verbally abuse other commentators on this blog. I do, when I find such comments, delete them.

  300. I am sorry this is just pure B.S. men that look at under age girls are filthy pathetic men. girls under 18 are CHILDREN. beauty has nothing to do with it. there are lots of women in their 20, 30 that are very beautiful. I am a father of 2 tween girls. and the thought of some 30 yr old lusting over them sickens me. poor excuses for men.

    • Jonathan you are the kind of guy who women love the way you (claim) to love your wife, a nice guy to have a secure caring relationship with,or hope for, women get hurt by men coz we are more emotional than men etc and bond more due to oxytonic and estrogen levels being higher in most women NOT coz we wanna bear the babies of men who have inferior pshycial qualities, thats why when womens testosterone rises during ovulation she cheats on her husband more and has a stronger urge to think about hotter men, research has proven this, we never look at men like you and think ‘wow I wanna fuck him’ ‘ rip of my clothes’ thats why pron exists, its a fantasy for something men cant get in reality, or rarely can, or only can if they promise a relationship and commitment finical security, or pay the girls. Men happily masturbate to pron and never think about how the girls in porn feel in regards to these men. I have been in porn and prostituion since 15, I am now 24 but I look young so get even more attention, people regularly mistake me for 18 – 20. I have spoken to lots of girls in porn and prostituion and know what most men who watch it dont, the disgust and revulsion we feel about men like you, most of us have been sexually abused and have low self esteem or we wouldn’t do it, we feel worthless like this is our only value in society. and whine on about help and sympathy for these men yet dont think about their victims, I was involved in porn and prostitution when I was only 15. It mentally scarred me for life. Girls that young are usually bullied, manipulated or co erced into it. Regardless of what men think most young girls and young women DO NOT find men like you attractive in a random hey I wanna fuck him way, thats why you have to marry and pretend to love your wife, you cant get one of us hotties. Maybe if you want sympathy for men start feeling empathy for the girls you look at online, do you really think we enjoy the sex or find men like you sexually attractive? Do you ever even stop to think about how you are watching a bunch of girls pretend to be turned on by men like you. Who ij reality would overlook you and walk straight past unless pretending to flirt to try get attention. Women are hard wired to form emotional bonds and love men but for raw lust like you feel for the girls you look at online, only guys like orlando bloom etc do that for us. but as girls and women we think about others feelings, no matter how horny I got I would never watch all this free online internet pron knowing the people doing it hate it, most of them, eg 99 % and only do it coz of the money and stuff has happened in their lives to make them damaged. Having worked in the sex industry I know stuff girls never tell men. Enjoy your porn and play the victim coz you cant get hotties like us so have to make do with your wife and kids you would abandon in a second for a young hottie, trust me I know what men like you are like, having also worked as an escort, you men lust after us and we hurt you, you use your wife as comfort, I understand it hurts, as your not attractive, I can see your photo, this must make your life hard, but you seem to think people who try have sex with 13 year olds eg dateline deserve a slap on the wrist? Those men destroy girls lives, thats harsh and cruel and shows no empathy to the victims, acting on urgesthat harm others is NO excuse, its evil, for example if you cheated on your wife and she killed the other hotter women she deserves a jail sentence and is not a victim. Countless research has shown underage sex causes immense hamrm to girls even in societies wrere it is ‘normalized’. Having sex or trying to with very young girls is a criminal offence it may benefit men evolutionary to mate with a girl who isnt already pregnant (Fertility argument is bull coz women are in prime fertility in early 20’s) BUT it doenst benefit the girl, increases her risk of dying in childbirth, complications even sterility from increased infection risk due to reproductive tract still developing, this happens intill a girl is at least 19 usually. Check out WHO statistics for dangers of childbirth under 19. It may BENEFIT men but it does NOT benefit girls, from an evolutionary point of view teenage girls and young women are wired to think men like you are creepy and want to seek higher quality mates (Although there are exceptions, girls who are less picky like with men who prefer older women) from a biological perspective they DONT wnat your seed,hence why porn exists. So while asking for sympathy for guys like you next time try remember how creepy and grossed out girls in porn and prostitution feel having men who look like you masturbate over us and tell us they are ‘in love with us’ then go home and cuddle wifey who is merely a fil in for what he cant have. Maybe get over yourself a bit and think about how girls in porn etc would actually feel about randomly having sex with you, Not ONE perosn on here has bothered to argue form the point of the young girls and hotties, all you men and women just think about your won feelings. Oh and any women on here whose husband has looked at actual young girls on line and masturbated and she hasnt reported on him, thats a criminal offence, shame on you, completely different form 18, 19 year old girls in porn.

  301. wow, A bunch of flipping pedophiles trying to justify why they like to look at young girls under the age 18. you want to look at youth. well girls in their 20’s are still youthful. and beautiful. But no you guys are just a bunch of sick men. most of you are probably daughterless and that’s why you talk this filthy crap. believe me, if a teen age girl saw some 30,40 year old checking them out. they would think that your nothing but a dirty old pervert.

    • So true haha. They concentrate on the small minority of teenage girls who like the attention and havent been mentally scared, and forget most of these girls think they are perverts and creeps and are traumatized eg sexually abused by older men, the sex isnt consensual, or they later regert it, almost every girl I know who had a sexual experience with an older guy grows up to be a total *****, myself included. MEN JUST DONT STOP AND THINK ABOUT HOW PERVERETED AND CREEPY THEY LOOK TO GIRLS AND WOMEN, THEY ONLY THINK ABOUT THEIR FEELINGS. And if a guy wants a women to understand is feelings for hoties he shoudl understand her insecurity. I dont get how these women can make excuses for these men. THIS IS A MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ALOT OF WOMEN AND MEN. WOMEN THINK ABOUT OTHERS FEELINGS MORE AND OUR OWN MATE VALUE EG WE STOP TO THINK ABOUT IF WE REALISTICALLY HAVE A CHANCE WITH THE PEOPLE WE OGLE. Honestly I would feel like I was mentally raping people if I was an unattractive old man jerking off to teenage porn coz I woudl know in reality the girls would hate my penis inside them. Even if older men can sometimes get younger girls they have to PURSUE hthem first. These men often write of anything a women says that disagrees with their opinions as ‘jealous ,insecure etc’ when we have been teenage girls so I think we know how most teenage girls feel better than men do. I get approached by men who mistake me for a teenager and make sleazy comments and it disgusts me.They are so sick they think at 23,24 I am to old to look hott so must be a young girl. Wtf? Alot of teenage girls are plain, so do they not count and just get swept under the rug? These men are stupid. Girls and women are either attractive or not, regardless of age up till about 35. Its just a teenage hottie is an easier target than a 25 year old beauty. A women is in her best years for childbearing in her early 20’s. Attraction to girls younger than that is about power, control and wanting a girl who hasnt been impregnated by another man, if you wanna use a biological argument at least get it right. Most animals actually prefer a female who isnt in adolescence. And even animals have adolescences.

  302. To the last commenter. You sir or madam have done nothing more than cough up the same mind vomit all the unthinking public do when regurgitating media spun drivel. And you need to look up the dictionary meaning on pedophilia. As it certainly does not qualify with your definition.

    Pedophilia is attraction to prepubescent girls. And NO it does not start arbitrarily at 18. That age is the rounded age of consent in some countries. However 16 is the more common age of consent in many.

    To state unequivocally that you believe all teenage girls find 30s 40s men creepy or perverted is unnecessary and more an emotional outcry on your part. Alot of teenage girls would disagree with you anyways. If you were to take the consensus of all girls of this age around the world. You would find alot of them find the mature attraction of George Clooney, Bradd Pitt, Johnny Depp and others very appealing. Otherwise why would these guys be plastered all over the walls of your daughters bedroom together with other aging rock stars and tv celebs. For your information alot of teenagers outside the US prefer 30s 40s men and do not have such narrow definitions of attraction as you happen to have.

    • Excuse me But I am a 16 year old. and I have many friends that thinks it is very gross when old men look at us. Just because I have older male rock stars pictures on my walls does NOT mean that I or my friends or atracted to them. they ARE stars. something you are not. Other girls in other countrys live in 3rd world countrys where they are married off at a young age. that does not mean they like it. when a older guy looks at me I feel grossed out a guy almost my dads age checking me out. I asked all my friends and they say GROSSSSSS. stop trying to make excuses for being dirty old men. We are 16. still a girl NOT yet a woman.

      • Yes and I know men who find fat girls immensely attractive. I know women who like muscular vs skinny men, and then theres those who date only asians. Whats your point?

        You will always be able to find different categories of people in all ages who like or dislike certain looks. That hardly constitutes as a voice of truth. You merely stated your dislikes and that of your friends. I can do the same and come up with a skewed view on what men of a certain age prefer. It doesn’t guarantee accuracy by a long shot.

        I was surprised when I visited Spain, Japan, Italy and most Latin and Asian countries, to find that I myself was overlooked (late 20s) for a 40 year old. And this was a very attractive young lady making that decision. It happened on several occassions. Granted these men were not all wealthy but had looks and confidence. It begs the question, should one go by a lifetime experience exceeding 20 odd year? Or by your 16 years of experience and biased opinion. You be the judge.

    • I already commented this, but for some reason my comment was not posted. So here I go again.

      Is this guy out of his mind? He is comparing Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp, and George Clooney as the representatives of older man. This men have always been hot, they have always been beautiful. They are not hot to to teens or the any other female becuase they are older, is becuase we are talking about one of the most beautiful men on the planet. This guys were beautiful in their twenties, and even in their teens years. Please don’t try to represent older men by this celebs. I have never in my life, and I mean in real life, not movies, seen an older men that looks nearly as that hot. I am sure you are no Brad Pitt, and men here are not either, becuase if you were you would be a celebrity. So don’t make ridiculous comparisons. My lil sixteen year old brother finds Catherine Zeta-Jones and Monica Belluci attractive, but that does not mean those are his age preference when looking to females, even when he spends time on the internet looking for pictures of them. In another hand, my lil sister, and all her firends have a mega crush for Justin Bieber who is her age. I like my partners to have my same age or close a close age. I get a long better with them, still I admit there are some teen boys I fing attractive,and maybe some older men that I find attractive, and I am in my early twenties. My point is a beautiful person is a beautiful person, it does not matter their age. I thinkk the one who has a norrow definition of attraction, as you said, it has to be yourself. You are the one who views attractiveness as an exclusive youth realted thing. Most females don’t. Although I have to say I dislike so much, hair loss. I just can not stand it. Brad Pitt, Johnny depp, and George Clooney have very nice hair line, which I think makes them more atrractive, and maybe more youthful looking. Besides the hair thing, I think older males can look better if they put more effort in themselves, something they hardly do. Is so much common to see a nice looking older lady than a nice looking older man, is just very difficult.
      Although in other countries younger woman prefer older man becuase they gurantee them stability versus a younger guy. This stuff is inculcated to them since they are little. In developed countries, many don’t care about stability because we already have it. Most of us don’t need an older men to pay for our stuff, we go to collage, we work, and we can do that for ourselves.

      • Thankyou for bestowing us with your voice of reason. I will have you know that I am not an ugly guy. Whether I am as blessed in looks as Pitt, Clooney, Cruise is beside the point. Because my looks seem to be sufficient to grab the attention of young females anyways. Perhaps this has spoilt my expectations somewhat. But it does not matter in the slightest. My pursuit of attractive girls is really my own challenge to whether I get them or not. The same applies to any other man out there, be it a young guy or old man.

        You may be correct in your assertions, especially in western countries where livelihood is not a major concern. But if an older man why should it matter his tastes if he is the only one concerned on whether he achieves his goal or not. Will you cry for him if he cannot get a young girl? Will you applaud him if he manages to make an old woman happy? No. So ultimately its nobodies business. Even if it were your own daughter, once she is over 18 she makes her own damn mind up. And I can say that if I had a daughter who fell in love with a man in his 30s and 40s, I would be much more successful in dissuading her as a friend and father vs an enemy and tyrant. However once her mind is made up, its made up for good and no force in the universe will change that.

    • @Blake 27. HAHA you called a 16 year old girl madam, you do realize its mostly teenage girls and girls like me who still get mistaken for a teenager who find men like you the most disturbing. Its actually older women who are more likely to make excuses to try keep their men. The ‘older women’ guys like you probably bash and try blame for this ‘creepy old men’ thing in society, if teenage girls had a mutual attraction for older men porn would not even need to exists, pron is virtually non existent in countries in which men can force teenage girls to marry and have sex with them, over there these men actually bale to get these girls instead ban porn and stuff like that etc to try keep their young gf’s all to themselves.
      Brad Pitt is hott coz he looks young, up intill recently, george clooney is more older womens tastes I have never heard a young women say he is hott. MOST teenage girls would agree with me (Who used to be a teenage girl and still gets mistaken for one) and sickened. Men like you just cant accept that your fantasies are often unrequieted, And alot of girls pretend to be attracted to older men coz of the power it gives them, attention and money then laugh and call him a ugly old man behind his back. You can be as attached to teenage girls all you want but dont try dictate how teenage girls feel to make yourself feel better and dont oput down people who find you creepy. We are allowed to find gross creepy old men past their prime creepy. We dont think guys like you are good enough to like us.and you attention makes us feel uncomfortable. Men can like what they like, the pnly people who care are your stupid wives and gf’s who you pretend to like and they are insecure and jealous as you would if a young hottie used you and actually wanted a buff guy her age, the problem is guys like you never understand from the perspective of the many people, mostly young girls and women, who find you men creepy, deluded and disturbed.

  303. I speak for every male here(I hope) when I say its not our fault were attracted to younger women. It really pisses me off how you women say you get angry at your boyfriends and question them to see if they are attracted to younger women. What do you think they’re going to tell you? Of course they’re going to say no, but every man is, believe it or not. Plus, you think you guys(women) make it any easier when you scream at us??? If anything your making us not want to be around you so we turn alternative options like media of younger women. I don’t think its right what we do sometimes, but its not like we can fully control our hormones as much as women can.

    Lets have a little analogy here. Theres two light switches. (1) A light switch that dims and can go from off to on very very slow or kinda fast. (2) Your average light switch where you flip it on and the light goes from off to on immediately. The first switch represents a woman. You can control your hormones somewhat, you can get somewhat turned on, and have your lights partially on and decide to turn them all they way on or turn them back off. The second switch represents a man, whereas when the flip switches, the light is coming out, your not gonna stop it. A man is either aroused or not. Hes NEVER in between. Infact, sometimes when even become aroused when there is nothing to be sexually excited about. The light switches on. We can’t control when it will happen or not. If we put ourselves in situations like media, its a lot more likely to happen, but it could happen to any guy when hes pretty much doing anything.

    I’m so sick of it. You guys act like we can control everything. This plays into being attracted to younger women because…We CAN’T CONTROL IT!!! I read plenty of posts above that said you were attracted to older guys rather than younger guys. Us guys would say thats just weird because they’re old have wrinkles, aging spots, etc. Well were attracted naturally attracted to teens, idk why. We just are. And we look at some of this media to just get away from our lives sometimes. Women forget a lot we have just as hard as lives and when you’re always pestering us about one thing or another its easier to just escape into a fantasy. Its not right, but every guy does it. A lot of us wish we didn’t we can’t control it, I mean literally its like trying to stop a car going 100mph ten feet from a stop sign. Its REALLY HARD. A lot of us try and stop, not all of us are guys who just zoom past the stop sign straight ahead. I mean really, we try too.

    • Well don’t speak for me. I’m a 30 yr old man. I have no interest in teen girls. I like my women in their early 20’s. so speak for your self. My wife don’t pester me about anything. because she knows I’m not in to little girls. girls in their teens are still girls. Maybe you are being pestered because you have perversed ways. I am a man and I can control my self when it comes to temptation. I don’t need to be in a fantasy world . I live for reality. so don’t say this every guy crap. because I don’t fit in the category of being a weak man.

      • Oh early 20s, like 21? yes maybe? You are nothing like my immature self of 34 who is dating a 19yo. Perhaps I can learn from you the finer points of the pros and cons of 18-19 vs early 20s.

        One major oversight on your part is that you assume all young women are little girls. Try saying that to the numerous college university students that are 18-19 and studying a law/arts or a science degree. They are hardly the intellectual pushovers you make them out to be. Just because a man does not judge a young lady by her age, or try to ask her for her drivers licence before engaging foot to mouth as you have. Alot of these so called “girls” can outsmart your classy older women any day. They are intelligent women who you are excluding yourself from, merely based on something arbitrary as age.

        We are not all shameful shallow tards that like low mileage chicks that keep well for longer. And you really are doing nobody any favors when saying you steer clear of younger women. You have some inbuilt paranoia we other men don’t have? Well this is just me but I don’t like to judge a book by its cover. If I have a decent conversation and she talks like a 12yo then I will move onto the next lady in search for intelligence.

    • You’ve got it mixed up, women arent ‘attarcted to older men’ in the way men are to hot young girls and women they see around, hott young men also do that for us eg movie stars that women obsess over. When women say they are attracted to older men we mean in an emotional cuddly way we want a relationship based on maturity and caring, us women form emotional bonds and we get hurt easily in all situations were an emotional bond is threatened eg like girls at high school who bully one another. Lust is different we get that for young men but we control it to be realistic, I am what alot of men consider hot and young looking but even I dont look at a guy and assume he wants me, so while I feel attracted I DONT act on it or ogle, that anyone can control and if they say they cant they are a liar. And I think these ladies problems is your using them, you dont wnat sex, you dont love them, why not be single if you feel so nagged and harrassed? Im sure if you were in relationshep with young hottie and she ignored you and made you feel used as many hotter women do to older men, you would complain. so why shouldn’t your gf? If you made them feel loved aswell as looking at young girls they wouldn’t see them as a threat, I have never been with a guy who has done this to me so I can say this form an outsiders point of view. Just dont use and pretend to care for women coz u secretly want a young hottie, JUST BE SINGLE. Stop lying to yourselves and these women and hurting them. I used to work as an escort and have men beg me to be with them, say they were in love with me and cum in 30 seconds, these women know if you could get these girls in real life you would lose interest in them in a flash thats why the feel so threatened. If looks are such a big deal to you just go out with sexy girls that fit the ideal, and I understand the feelings not always mutual so you men have a hard time getting these women to genuinely lie you and not just use you for money, but no excuse to go use less attractive older women.

  304. I have been following this blog for a while now. First, thanks to everyone for your input…It has been so enlightening in so many ways.

    I have recently found my spouse looking at teen porn and I have to be honest and say that it disgusts me. We’ve been together since we were 17. I have had problems with porn in general. It got to a point where he said sex with me was “too much work”. Oral sex was a 45 minute marathon that ended up with him needing porn in order to finish. It was “easier” for him, but I felt alienated and suffered for it. Since that time, a lot has changed (currently for the better). As far as being frigid and not wanting sex, I am far from that. In fact, I love sex and am very sexually charged. I was told that it was just for variety reasons. Of course, I tried to spice things up. I got colored contacts, offered to buy wigs, got lingerie,…. to make him happy. I know from my experience in my relationship that I agree with

    Kysha says “from reading the blog about teen porn, I get the impression that many women are not feeling emotionally and sexually fulfilled.

    I think, the reaction to the use of teen porn by their partners has more to do with this than any other factor.”

    I believe you are right as far as I am concerned with this one. My husband does not reciprocate with me. I have things I would like for him to do and he just won’t. It doesn’t seem to matter how many times I ask, encourage, or try to direct.

    We tried the honesty route, I ended up more distressed than before. I now know his “ideal” and I am far from this depiction. I am more aware of the way men (in general, not all) think. I’ll be honest and say that I find it very disturbing (as a woman.) I feel (notice that I said feel) that many men think the older you get, the less attractive you get. I hear how we are jaded and bring too many problems and issues to the table. The teens are more carefree without hangups (which is not true based on the teens I know. They just have very different hang ups and concerns due more to immaturity than anything else.) If you know someone is not your “ideal”, why bother with marriage? Why not find what you are looking for? I don’t believe is “soul mates”. You make a relationship work or you choose not to. But your ideal is out there, so why not search for her?

    Jake Says: Alot of these so called “girls” can outsmart your classy older women any day.

    But a lot of these so called “girls” can’t even answer basic questions such as naming the 3 branches of government, where we are at war, what NASA stands for,….

    Timmer Says: We CAN’T CONTROL IT!!! I really liked your analogy. On the same token though, it seems unfair ( yes, I know life is unfair). As a woman, we CAN’T CONTROL IT!!! We are ruled a lot by our emotions rather than logic. (not that we can not be logical) I don’t like feeling this way. I don’t like wishing I had my 20 year old body. I don’t like comparing myself to all of these girls. It is in my nature as a woman to want to be “HOT.” I want men to want me! (but I want my husband to see my this way more than anyone else) I want to look pretty. I might add that I am 38 and people do say I look younger than my age. Everyone says, get over it! My question to everyone is how! Please give me some actual steps/actions other than just “get over it.”

    I recently read this article and agree with this man.
    “Spare me the arguments from biology or evolutionary psychology, the ones that excuse predatory old guys from staring at “young firm flesh” because that flesh belongs to a woman near the peak of her fertility. The great lengths to which countless men go to avoid fatherhood suggests that the continued evolutionary imperative to “spread one’s seed” is oversold to the point of being illusory.” —Hugo Schwyzer
    Why, if it is to spread your seed,… do so many men wear condoms and avoid fatherhood?

    “It is, in fact, a sad truth about human life that beyond our salad days, very few of us are interesting to look at in the buff. Added to that sadness is the very unfair truth that a woman’s salad days are shorter than a man’s—really, in this precise context, only from about 15 to 20″–.Hugo Schwyzer

    Lynn Phillips, a psychology professor at New York University, did a famous study of young women (mostly under legal age) who were in relationships with significantly older men. Most of the girls she interviewed described these affairs as mutual, exciting, and fulfilling. They pushed back against the suggestion that they were being exploited, claiming in many cases to have initiated or at least welcomed the sex with older men. Phillips then interviewed a similar number of older women. Each of these was over 30, and each had been in a relationship with a much older man while still in her teens. With the benefit of hindsight and experience, these older women acknowledged that they’d been used and hurt and exploited. They admitted that their claims of maturity and sexual adventurousness were all a pretense. In other words, what Phillips found is that while there are some teen girls who are “asking for it,” it’s not what they really want. Teen girls feign sexual sophistication; men need to be able to see through that.

    I also have a daughter and only now after my husband watching teen porn do I find myself questioning if he will be oogling her friends. What do I do as she gets older and brings her friends over? Will he be thinking nasty thoughts? Obviously, I will be older as well. He also prefers petite, boyish figures with smaller to non- existant breasts. They seem like children or little boys. Hardly what I would construe as fertile. It really makes me see him in the worst negative light and I really wish it weren’t that way.

    The truth is that I know I can’t change my husbands preferences and that I know I have insecurity issues. We are going to counseling for other problems and this topic was brought up, but we had to c lose the session due to time running out. I apologize if I sound bitter or just plain crazy. I also apologize for such an unbelievably long post, but this has been dwelling in my mind. Any thoughts or suggestions would definitely be appreciated.

    • Thanks, Natasha, for responding sincerely and avoiding polemics.

      This issue has been, for me, an exercise in accepting human nature, acceptance not in the sense giving up but of “fully acknowledging that what’s happening is happening – ‘accepting the realness of what’s here’, which includes, crucially, your negative feelings about it. Accepting a situation ‘doesn’t mean you like it or say it’s OK,’ writes the psychologist Robert Leahy. ‘It means you know it is what it is, and that is where you start from.’ “

      • Thank you Jonathan for an amazing quote! It has been replaying in my mind since I have read it and I do hope to apply this to my life.

    • Don’t worry about the length of your reply, Natasha. Yours is an intelligent reply and that’s what matters most.

      Look, it’s not really any of my business, but since you brought it up, I’ll chime in on it. If your husband is the sort of man who will not make more than a token effort to sexually satisfy you, then I very seriously doubt his attitude owes much either to anything you are doing wrong, or to his looking at naked 18 year olds. Some men are just sexually selfish or have other mental or emotional problems. It’s probably fortunate he is in counseling.

    • Quite an interesting read. As you have observed, most men are predictably drawn to younger females when it comes to sex. Otherwise there would be a major porn industry involving ladies over 40. This is clearly not the case.

      You say you are disturbed by his porn interests and repulsed that he likes boy type ladies. That is quite an extreme end of sexual preference. And even I would endorse some form of councelling, you never know what lurks underneath the darker recesses of his mind. But be considerate and gentle when probing those reasons. Alot of men are very vunerable and protective about their darker sexual fixations. And I would not put it past him that he is too.

      However you should try to not find his pornography tastes so offensive. Perhaps if you understood that it is more of a fantasy to him than anything else, you would discover a softer side to him that needs to be nurtured and not cast away in disdain.

      I also noticed you quoted me. When I said younger girls could outsmart any classy older woman. What I meant by that is there are girls out there that can hold their own. Would know the answer to your question about the 3 branches of government or what NASA stands for. From which I personally do not find that set of knowledge so critical (alot of foreign girls know alot about their own countries history but would know little about the US)

      I knew alot of 18-19yo studying political sciences. They were completely in their element talking about politics or current world events. I would of married any of them on the spot, since I share similar passions. But many of them wanted a career first and to travel more. The point I am trying to make is that young girls are not stupid, and neither are older women. However we should avoid making scandals about men and women in general. Especially when it comes to sexuality, since neither gender sees eye to eye on the matter, as it concerns each gender differently.

      • Thank you for the response. I would like to say Jake that I do understand that this is a fantasy. I readily admit that I have fantasies of my own. I also understand the need to be “delicate” when discussing these issues. I do not want to make him feel bad nor cast him away in disdain. We are all vulnerable when discussing these things, women just as much as men. My problem Jake is that I “wear my emotions on my face.” They are just that though, my emotions. It goes back to what I said to Timmer. I don’t want to feel this way, nor react this way. I specifically told the counselor that. I really hope that when we return he can give me some insight and direct action steps to help with this for my own sake as well as my husbands.

        As far as his preference, I know of a couple of traumatic events that happened in his past which may have led to this. I agree that counseling is a necessity.

        Let me elaborate by saying that I believe intelligence is relative. I look at life and individuals a bit differently than some. (of course, some will agree with me and some won’t). I believe everyone is intelligent in different areas (where I lack in knowledge, another individual does not). I agree that there are many 18-19 year olds that are highly intelligent. The examples I gave are not prerequisites and I agree it is not critical. I was merely trying to point out that “intelligence is in the eye of the beholder.”

        I am not trying to make scandals about men and women in general. I really am trying to understand and you are absolutely correct in it concerning each gender differnetly. I also pointed out my personal problems with porn to show that I might be obtuse in my view of teen porn due to the fact that my husband chose porn over me.

  305. Being attracted to teen girls is probably due to biology. The fact that reproduction among our species remains at it’s prime in our late teen and early twenties means that the physical aspects of the teen body remains the most sexually attractive for reproductive reasons.

    This is nothing to be ashamed about. The problem is that our growing knowledge base requires us, probably incorrectly, to push the age of maturity back based on how much one needs to know to function in a growing complex society due to technology. In other words, we don’t reward so called basic understanding of the world associated with trade skills and put a greater emphasis and greater monetary award on so called higher skills. Combine this with religious movements that have pushed the age of maturity back until one can be “independent” than it’s no wonder we find a disassociation between the physical age of maturity known as able to reproduce and the intellectual age of maturity known as being able to take care of oneself.

    And I believe the latter notion of technological and intellectual maturity will continue to outstrip the fact that biological maturity will remain where it’s at, and actually probably move to a younger age due to improved diets, that modern societies will move to a scarier state of being in which a minority elite class will live among a “vulgar” class in which one reaps the rewards of the technological maturity while the rest live to serve providing the basics.

  306. I have been struggling with my very particular tastes in women for years. Ever since I was a young boy of 12 I always felt the magical age of a woman is betweeb 15-19. It was no big deal as I got slightly older 20s then 30s. But eventually things got awkward as I was pushing mid 40s.

    You know what the funny thing is? I had no problems up until early 40s looking like a man of at least his late 20s. So I was very focused the whole time on teenagers or youthful early 20somethings. Is this my fault you ask? Most certainly not. I still attribute this to biology, in much the same way as defended by Timmer and others here. But I can’t reconcile my tastes to older women. I have in fact lost entire friendships with exes who aged gracefully but held no allure to me beyond a certain point.

    I may be the epitome of what it is to be an ephebophile. For those unfamiliar to the term, its just another fancy name for attraction to adolescent females. But do not mistake this with the more sinister cousin to this affliction. Pedophilia is unnatural in my eyes. Any attraction to prepubescence or any girl outside of the age of fertility is an abomination to me. But yet I am still marred by this love for taut and terrific skin. Unblemished adorable fresh faces and bountiful hips and legs that dance in such gracious delight.

    Where has this affinity for demure and immaculate girls taken me? Well given that even a connoisseur such as myself begins to wane as the years go by, my exploits have now taken a very sobering turn. It is not within my capacity anymore to bed teenagers with such ease and frequency as once upon a time. Because western girls are very wary of older gentlemen with ulterior motives. If I was a millionaire perhaps I could of stayed in my home turf and continued my reign. But alas I had to escape to the shores of the Far East and Latin America to stand a chance once more.

    Here my conquests are plentiful and have returned to much the same frequency I enjoyed as a young man, maybe even more! I have gazed upon societies and cultures that embrace the worldly charm of an old gentleman. And I must say unapologetically that this warms my cockles to no end.

    But I must digress for now. As I could speak fondly about this subject for hours on end. Its good to see such articles that really try to give insights to an otherwise hushed yet natural phenomenon to the male condition.

    Good day to you all.

    • I hope you realize having sex with a minor under 18 who lives outside the US is a criminal offense in the US and you can go to jail for up to 30 years, ICE will catch you and charge you, I hope you werent implying you go overseas to get beauties and if you do stick to 18- 19. They only have sex for the money and its exploitation, any man with any empathy realizes that hence the law.

      • I’ve read all your responses and must say you’re the only person around here i agree 100% with.
        It seems most frustrated wives/gf’s around here are just plain stupid(im really sorry for my choice of words,i was honestly sympathethic at first,but as i kept on reading through these posts…well,it got to me that the final conclusion one should take from this is that these older women, up to this day ,are willing to hate on the younger girls when in fact their sick minded husbands/bf bear the blame….or blame themselves and continue to put up with this horrible treatment).
        The men here are sick-minded weirdos i cannot EVER imagine holding any respect for in this or any other life…of course,im not referring to the very few exceptions that havent gone “being atttracted to female teenage kids is perfectly normal and we shouldnt feel any guilt for it”….
        Also,lila,i really appreciate the fact that you were the only person that pointed out the “porn girl issue”….i have thought about this many times and it seems to me,that this side of the issue is the most heart-breaking-the way these girls in porn videos cope with all the crap being done to them,and thought about them.NOT the way dirty old(may i add:disgusting) men are supposedely coping with their immoral thoughts OR the way stupid women are thick enough to even think about putting up with their behaviour.It seems the human beings in the porn/prostitution industry are completely left out of the equation….
        Im a 16 year old girl and i know what i feel every single time a old man gives me the up-and-down.:UTTER DISGUST….i know i wouldnt even need to get to know the man,ive already lost any potential respect i may have had for that,erm,man(?).
        Also,lila,my mom has been in the same industry you have,so,even though i dont (fortunately) fully comprehend your entire situation and how horrible it has been/still is for you,i can still hold a certain idea.My respect goes to you.

  307. I have a friend who has an amazing figure, counts her calories, works out every day, and is drop dead gorgeous. She turns heads where ever she goes.

    I’ve always thought her husband was a lucky SOB…

    As the story goes, according to her, one day she decided to check her husband’s internet history and was stunned by her discovery:

    Porn sites featuring BBW’s. Oh yeah. If you don’t know what that means, it’s basically women who are large and in-charge (250lbs.+). I mean, how do you explain that one? The guy has a legitimately beautiful wife that actually takes care of herself and he’s checking out naked pics of BBW’s? I know it sounds like this is something I’m making up, but it’s completely true, and I think it brings up an important point to this epic 3 year conversation on teen porn:

    Human Sexuality is extremely complicated and does not exist in a world of Black and White.

    I can remember seeing a playboy magazine at my friend’s house when I was probably 5 years old and being extremely drawn to it without completely realizing why. All I remember is that I thought the naked women looked more beautiful than anything I’d ever seen and the emotions it generated were incredibly exciting; far beyond anything I’d ever experienced. It was probably the equivalent of taking a hit of crack at age 5, but whatever, it was amazing.

    Since then I’ve watched porn thousands of times in my life. I find that teen girls are incredibly beautiful and I have watched more than my fair share of teen porn. Based on my experiences, you can check out any porn site that offers free streaming videos and on every single site, you’ll find that the TEEN PORN section is the most popular, usually by a wide margin, and I think that speaks volumes about the sexual interests of men in general.

    However, just like I wouldn’t want to eat lobster every single night, I also need variety with sex, so I don’t always watch teen porn and I’d wager that it’s the same for most men. Sometimes a young girl just doesn’t do it for me and I prefer an older woman for a variety of reasons…

    I’m not going to go any further into that, but my point is that this issue is deep and perplexing for all of us. For example, I don’t understand my friend’s husband and his interest in large, obese women, and I don’t understand men with a foot fetish either but there are websites all over the internet that cater to these fetishes and many others as we all know. Who the hell am I to judge them for their sexual interests?

    Human beings are all flawed in so many ways. It’s ridiculous to stand on your pedestal and accuse someone else of being sick just because they find teenage girls attractive. I guarantee you we are all sick in our own way. Some people are comfortable with that and some people lie to themselves to keep up the facade of their own perceived normalcy in their own minds.

    Just take a look at our history. It’s a raw, tragic tale full of horrible violence and sexual perversity (as it is defined in today’s terms), which is just a reflection of our own bestial natures that we fail to control as we have proven time and time again over the course of history. The husband unable to control his addiction to internet porn is just a microcosmic example of this. He continues to do it regardless of who he hurts or the feelings of shame he may associate with it because he is unable to control himself, not because he doesn’t love those people. Sex is probably the single-most powerful force on the planet…how do you resist? Catholic Church scandal anyone? Or what about the never-ending stories of political downfall connected to sex scandals we see in America? Why do Muslim men force Muslim women cover themselves from head to toe (obviously to nullify their sexual power over men). These are just a few the many examples of human weakness regarding sex.

    As one poster said above, porn use is just a symptom, not the cause.

  308. I sympathize with Anna. I went through exactly the same pattern. I have exactly the same feelings. My husband turned out to be not a man I though he was. It is so pathetic for a 48 years old man drool over images of young girls… I think of these men as not properly developed mentally. It has been over a year since I had discovered his “dirty secret”, and I have been living in separate room since then. There are no doubts in my mind how to deal with that issue; I am working on getting out of this marriage. I lost all respect for him. I am not attracted to him physically. I don’t trust him. Do I need to mention that the love is gone? I am younger than he, gorgeous, smart, and proud. I cannot love a looser that is not mature enough to appreciate a real woman, who actually loved him.

    • WoW.i take back some of the things i said in my previous comment.It seems some of the women around here CAN use their brains and have self-respect.My respect goes to you Lisa.

  309. When I began to sexually awaken at about 11 or 12 (I am a male now past 40), I recall that I was sexually attracted to my older sister’s friends who were 18-19. When I lost my virginity at 14, I lost it to a 19 year old girl…when I was 19 and at college, I was attracted to 19 year old fellow students…when I married, I was 25 and married an 18 year old girl (nearly 19)…I am now past 40 and my first daughter approaches 19, I find I am VERY sexually attracted to her friends…I don’t love my wife any less (we have been happily married now for over 20 years).

    But, as a male, monogamy is NOT something I have ever practiced (yes, my wife is aware and I have her blessing, she was raised well and without any of the psychotic religious bullshit most women are saddled with). And, I have had sex with a couple of my daughter’s friends as they pass the milestone of their 18th year…and I have lusted after many more, I never approach them unless they make the first move…and believe me, lots of younger girls have the “older man” fantasy and enjoy fulfilling it…over the years, I have had countless encounters with girls 18-19 and every one loved the experience as I am not a porn star experience kinda guy…they were all quite tender and fulfilling to both of us.

    Ok, all the narrow minded religious freaks can now flame my post…trust me, those comments will fall on deaf ears.

    Cheers!

    • I’m wondering how would you feel if your wife returned the favor and had sex with another man (regardless of whether or not you think she’d want to).

      Also, many young women who have sex with older men say that they’re making their own choices at the time but years later say that they were actually manipulated because of their inexperience. Does this possibility give you any pause?

  310. I feel a sickness here. I believe it’s wrong to have an attraction to teenaged children. It is just a very strong instinctual feeling that I have always had. I believe we all understand that is true or our laws would be different. And if a man or a woman feels attraction to underaged children I believe there are underlying issues.

    • What would you say if someone has a “strong instinctual” attraction to young children? I don’t think it’s wise to base our beliefs on instincts alone.

      I do think it’s fair to say that most people have feelings similar to yours.

  311. If they say they have “Strong Instinctual” attraction to young children then they need help. Most normal people have strong insticts to protect children. There are people who have strong desires to run over people on the freeway when they are cut-off. I think we all know that that is wrong and that children should be protected from adults. There is an undermine of community when it is considered okay for children to be photograhed for sexual desires for adults. It is an inapproprate response to beauty. Most peoples “instincts” are fairly sound. There are some that do harm children but, even those who do have those “feelings about children,” know they are doing something wrong. I would guess that they do not like that part of themselves which brings me back to they are in need of help.

    • Would you condemn a person if they had strong attraction to children but never acted on their attractions?

      Do you feel it’s different if a person is attracted to teenagers rather than children that haven’t reached puberty?

  312. I, a woman, consider teens to be unformed and uninteresting. However, I fear that men have been culturally conditioned to exhibit what appears to be universally present in patriarchal societies, the desire to lay waste to innocence. I guess there’s something godlike in destroying young innocence, something that I do not understand.

    • That’s a pretty depressing opinion of 50% of the population. I acknowledge that it may be tragically true in some cases, but I’m certain that it’s not universally true.

      If you’ll allow me to speculate, I suspect that modern male fantasies about being with young or virginal women are more centered on being in control and being judged worthy by the woman. Historical fascination with female virginity also, I suspect, had to do with controlling who a child’s father is and the human desire for purity. I don’t see that desire as destructive of innocence. It’s probably more possessive and controlling than anything.

  313. I concede that I am reacting angrily to the double standard of our culture which still prevails, demanding that a woman be totally pure and innocent while men are free to be totally diseased whores in comparison.

    My daughter practiced medicine for several years in Texas as a GP, where she was obliged to tell a dear, sweet elderly woman who had never strayed from her marital vow that she was infected with an STD, courtesy of her old fart of a corrupted husband.

    Yuck! Yuck! And yuck a million times over!

  314. More in Texas, the case of pedophile Warren Jeffs:

    “Jeffs – the FLDS prophet – was convicted Thursday of child sexual assault and aggravated child sexual assault of a 12-year-old and a 14-yearold. He was the eighth FLDS member to be convicted in Texas since a 2008 raid on the church’s compound.

    “Key to the conviction of the 55-year-old fundamentalist Mormon leader was DNA evidence of his fathering a child with a 15-year-old and bizarre audio tapes. One tape was made as he ritualistically raped the 12-year-old with others watching. Another was his instructions to a ;Quorum of 12′ brides to shave their pubic hair and always be sexually ready ‘when I need your comfort.'”

    The need of the godlike male over the welfare of the inferior female who exists only to “comfort” god the male. I really, really hate religion! An excuse for barbaric, inhumane behavior.

    • I’m glad that Jeffs has been convicted and sentenced to life in prison. I hope the conviction sticks.

      I need to point out a misnomer. Since Jeffs’ victims were past puberty, he isn’t a pedophile, technically speaking. Some would call him an ephebophile. That doesn’t change the morality of his actions in my eyes. I just don’t like lumping all sexual disorders together.

  315. I consider a 12-year-old a child, I guess that’s the way a woman looks at the situation.

    • I’m sure there are women somewhere who look at it differently than you, like the women featured in a recent National Geographic article who married off their very young daughters.

      I agree that a 12-year-old is a child. The point I would like to get across is that people who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children are generally not the same people who are attracted to pubescent children. I doubt that Jeffs would be interested in a six-year-old, for example.

      In the context of this post, I doubt that someone who is attracted to “teen” pornography (i.e. for the most part pornography featuring 18- and 19-year-old models) would be attracted to a pre-pubescent child or even to a 12-year-old. So it’s an injustice to lump all of these groups together under the term “pedophile”.

      I hope this next one bakes your noodle: very few child molesters are pedophiles! A significant number of offenders are other children, and most adult offenders are sexually attracted to other adults.

  316. I am well aware that children sexually molest other children. In those cases questions must be asked:

    What is the economic situation involved?

    Do the parents of those children have the economic luxury of proper supervision for their children, of having the economic luxury of being able to teach their children an advanced morality?

    As for the situation in the Indian village cited in Natl Geo, a father is obliged to say, ‘If I am willing to get my daughter married late, will you take responsibility for her protection?’ indicating that he lacks the economic luxury of decent law enforcement, the luxury of having the time and means to properly ensure the safety of his children.

    As for the use of the term “ephebophilia,” that’s an instrument of sophistry employed by the Roman Catholic Church to justify the sexual proclivities of their priests.

    The status of child and adolescent is debatable but I deplore the sophistic use of such terms to lend credence to questionable sexual behavior.

    Are your sensibilities offended by sexual exploitation of 12’year-old boys?

    “The roots of Greek pederasty lie in the tribal past of Greece, before the rise of the city-state as a unit of political organization. These tribal communities were organized according to age groups. When it came time for a boy to embrace the age group of the adult and to “become a man,” he would leave the tribe in the company of an older man for a period of time that constituted a rite of passage. This older man would educate the youth in the ways of Greek life and the responsibilities of adulthood.

    “The rite of passage undergone by Greek youths in the tribal prehistory of Greece evolved into the commonly known form of Greek pederasty after the rise of the city-state, or polis. Greek boys no longer left the confines of the community, but rather paired up with older men within the confines of the city. These men, like their earlier counterparts, played an educational and instructive role in the lives of their young companions; likewise, just as in earlier times, they shared a sexual relationship with their boys. The adult man enacted the role of the penetrator in these relationships, while the youth was the passive, penetrated partner.

    “An elaborate social code governed the mechanics of Greek pederasty. It was the duty of the adult man to court the boy who struck his fancy, and it was viewed as socially appropriate for the younger man to withhold for a while before capitulating to his mentor’s desires. This waiting period allowed the boy to ensure that his suitor was not merely interested in him for sexual purposes but felt a genuine emotional affection for him and was interested in assuming the mentor role assigned to him in the pederastic paradigm.

    “The age limit for pederasty in ancient Greece seems to encompass, at the minimum end, boys of twelve years of age. To love a boy below the age of twelve was considered inappropriate, but no evidence exists of any legal penalties attached to this sort of practice. Traditionally, a pederastic relationship could continue until the widespread growth of the boy’s body hair, when he is considered a man. Thus, the age limit for the younger member of a pederastic relationship seems to have extended from 12 to about 17 years of age.” – Wlikipedia

    How would you feel in you had been used in such a way?

    • Your question about pederasty is thought provoking but ultimately unanswerable.

      Do all children today feel ashamed when they masturbate? I hope not, but attitudes have changed wildly over the last few centuries. The level of shame associated with masturbation has varied over time, and a child’s experience with it would have changed too.

      If twelve-year-old me were transported to ancient Greece, I would have probably felt ashamed and victimized. If I had grown up in ancient Greece, I may not have felt ashamed of something that was considered normal and expected. It’s impossible to say exactly how I would have felt.

      That doesn’t change the fact that I think pederasty is an unhealthy and unnecessary practice.

  317. Dunno. This sounds like trying to muck around with people’s minds to manipulate them.
    “However, one Vatican official, Archbishop Silvano Tomasi, who serves as the Permanent Observer of the Holy See to the Office of the United Nations, has made the claim that the clerical abuses that rocked the Catholic church and stunned the faithful the world over were not committed by pedophiles, but rather by “ephebophiles”–men attracted to adolescent boys….
    “Tomasi went on to make his claim that the abuses had been committed by ephebophiles, rather than pedophiles.

    “‘Of all priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90% belong to this sexual orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between the ages of 11 and 17,’ Tomasi asserted.

    “News media reports have tended to focus on the priests who allegedly abused much younger victims, sometimes serially so as their superiors shifted them around the country in order to avoid abuses coming to light.

    “The tragic side effect of that strategy was to expose more parishes to the predations of abusive priests.

    “Media accounts of the pedophile priest scandal and its aftermath have been full of accounts of men who claimed to have abused as young children, well short of their teenage years….”

    http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&sc=&sc3=&id=96980

    • I’m not trying to excuse away victimizing children by drawing a distinction between pedophiles, ephebophiles, and child molesters.

  318. This thread has largely turned into male bashing and/or female bashing. From here on out, I’m going to ban anyone bashing men and/or women, and delete their remarks. Just so you know.

  319. My ex was a sex offender but failed to tell me before we were engaged. I did not marry him. he fucked his own 11 year old daughter. Stop blaming sick behavior and excusing it on the media etc. pigs are pigs. the internet just makes it easier for them to get access. And yes he still wants to fuck little teeny boopers. he is 46 so whatever. He is in jail once again failure to register for the 4th time.

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