Why Do Men Look At Teen Nudity?
May 7, 2008
Yesterday, someone typed into a search engine the question, “Why do men look at teen nudity?”, and up popped this blog. I saw their question on my stats page and dismissed it: “Isn’t the answer obvious?”, I thought, “Men look at nude teens because youth is beautiful. Why would anyone need to ask?”
Three or four hours later I was back looking at the stats page again. Yet, this time the answer didn’t seem as obvious. So I googled the question to find out what others were saying. But the search only brought up one blog — this one. The remaining hits were porn sites, and not too helpful.
I then tried recalling studies done on why men look at teen nudity, but I couldn’t recall any. So, for some time now I’ve been sitting here wildly speculating. The answer once seemed obvious to me, but the more I look into it, the more I wonder.
At present, I suspect there are evolutionary reasons men look at teen nudity. For instance, I’ve read the prime reproductive years for women are their early 20s, and older teens aren’t too far from that. It seems reasonable to suppose that men who are especially attracted to women who are in their prime reproductive years will be more successful at reproducing than men who are not especially attracted to women who are in those years. So, natural selection would favor men who are especially attracted to women who are in their prime reproductive years. That would not only explain why men look at teen nudity, but why they look at teens (period/full stop).
Put a bit differently, men are attracted to youth — and find youth beautiful — because youth more or less corresponds with the prime reproductive years for women. Not a novel idea. I’ve heard it before. But at least the next time someone googles, “Why do men look at teen nudity”, they will now have something to start from. Of course, it’s a pretty rough and incomplete start.
So, what other reasons are there?
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May 7, 2008 at 7:39 AM
Just a thought, so don’t quote me on it, but people tend to imprint aesthetic preferences at key points in life that follow them the rest of their days. One of the curious side effects is that indulging in things that remind of our first profound aesthetic experiences makes us feel comforted and sheltered – makes us feel “young” again. You’ve undoubtedly heard the term “comfort food” or noticed the tendency of people to have a special love for the rest of their life for the first music that they really listened to and understood as children. Perhaps a similar dynamic is at work with men and teen aged girls. The first sexual aesthetic was likely for most men an experience in their early-mid teens. So the ideal sexuality is that one. It makes them feel young and secure again by transporting them back to those powerful first memories.
Or put another way, for many men, teen-aged girls might be a sort of “sexual comfort food.”
D
May 7, 2008 at 8:56 AM
I like your idea, Brendan. It’s actually almost exactly what I was coming over here to write! So given that my thoughts to the first question have already been included, I’ll further the discussion with this:
When I (a woman) was 19 – 22 years old or so, I worried that I would continue to be attracted to younger looking men. I worried that I would look at my as-yet-unborn-sons’ friends and find them sexually attractive. While I have not had sons, and so will not have that problem, I have found to my delight that my interest in men has aged with me. When I look at teenage boys now, I am no more attracted to them than I am to a child.
I wonder if women are less sexually attracted to teenage boys than men are sexually attracted to teenage girls? And if they are, then why?
May 7, 2008 at 2:54 PM
Good question Karen Rayne. I am going out on a limb here to express an opinion based on conjecture more than fact. Women are less sexually attracted to very young men because for some reason our sexual satisfaction seems closely bound to social status and power. I think women find power and status in a man sexy and are willing to let the esthetic standard slip in exchange for greater status. So has been my observation. Very young men, while delightful to look at come a cropper in the status department. Beutiful but unintelligent young men and boys, easy on the eyes, excite me sexually as much as a store manikin does – not at all – because it is the interior life of a man playing out on his surface that I find attractive, exciting and satisfactory for the long-term. G
May 7, 2008 at 8:08 PM
@ Brendan: That’s a very interesting perspective, Brendan — one that I suspect plays into it with at least some people.
@ Karen: I find I take pleasure in how adolescent girls look, and I am to some extent sexually attracted to them, but I am put off by their kind of sexuality. For instance, their sexual insecurities, so typical of adolescence, are devastating turn offs.
Over the years, a half dozen of my young friends have at one time or another formed an interest in me. But I’ve not taken any one of them up on it. What sexual attraction I have towards them always seems to get run over by an aversion to dealing with their sexuality.
The other factor that seems to enter into it for me is my reluctance to get involved with someone who doesn’t really understand me — and there are things about people my age that it would be cruel to expect an adolescent to understand, or to deal with.
I do love looking at the kids, though.
@ Suburbanlife: Thank you for those insights! Although I’m celibate, I at times feel strongly attracted to someone. It seems in each case that’s been to a middle aged woman. And I’m pretty sure by now that what has turned me on is their sexual confidence. So, like you G, I find youth easy on the eyes, but no where near as sexually attractive as older people.
May 7, 2008 at 11:14 PM
I agree with Suburban to a large extent. It seems logical that the male species want to primarily spread their seeds and the female wants to preserve them once they flower.
May 8, 2008 at 5:46 AM
Let’s face facts: firm-breasted, fresh-skinned and unblemished youth is a hell of a lot more attractive than skin that looks like a deflated lizard, with liver spots the size of dimes and boobs that need a crane to lift them off the belt line. It takes a special kind of person to see the beauty in all that, and most of us ain’t that special.
I have to admit my own shallowness here. When it comes to oogling nakie people, young and virile beats old and saggy. And I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to breed, so I can’t say I’m in it for the stud value. Not consciously, anyway. What my damned genes get up to when I’m not watching is an open question. ;-D
May 8, 2008 at 6:11 AM
@ Nita: Well said! I think there’s a lot of truth in that generalization. It fits well, for instance, with what I’ve heard from some biologists.
@ Dana: Thank you for such an interesting comment! I would have completely agreed with you fifteen or twenty years ago, so I can relate to what you’re saying. It seems to me, however, that our sexuality tends to change somewhat with age. What we are looking for when we are 20 or 30 years old is not necessarily what turns us on at 40 or 50 years old. At least, that’s been my experience.
May 9, 2008 at 8:43 AM
Ah not the youtfullness but youths innocence.
“There is no aphrodisiac like innocence”.
Someone said… he could be wrong though.
May 9, 2008 at 10:52 AM
Ah, last night I was reminded quite firmly that age is all relative. So here’s a question for everyone here: what on earth do you mean by “youth”?
I’m a good bit younger than most of my friends (all the parents of my daughters’ friends). I’m 28 – and my idea of youth is just different from theirs. I think of anyone around 21 or 22 or younger to be “young.” And I find that the people (men and women) who I find attractive are within about 5 years of my age, plus or minus. There are, of course, outliers – but they tend to be older rather than younger.
But many of my friends (all parents of my daughter’s friends) consider me “young” as in the phrase “too young for me to be romantically involved with, were I looking for a relationship with a woman.”
And I want to be clear that we’re talking about age-ist expectations here – an average that has little to do directly with each individual we meet.
What do each of you mean when you say “youth” or “young”?
May 10, 2008 at 8:23 AM
@ Purnima: Nice to see you again! I myself love experience in a woman. But maybe that’s just me.
@ Karen: I tend to think of anyone younger than 35 or so to be on the youthful side of things. As for whether someone is too young for me to be romantically involved with — that could be a different matter. I don’t really know. I’m celibate, so I would need to consult my heart and mind about that.
May 11, 2008 at 2:43 AM
Oh, dear. And here I was hoping you’d called me out for a shallow, crass, materialistic so-and-so, and all I get is an excellent point! Argh!
I’m caught out. I’m just a 30-something gal who’s probably not out of the “ooo, firm young flesh” stage yet. Although, I do find Ian McKellan dead sexy, mind. But when I read this, I was thinking of what my guy friends have said about the younguns (we’ve all had some really bad moments as the child stars of Harry Potter have grown and we’ve had to wonder if we were becoming pedophiles, lol!), and yup – they’re all in their 20s or 30s.
Then again, I know a lot of dirty old men who love looking at the girls. They don’t seem to have changed their appreciation of female beauty so much as added another category.
For raw sexual attraction, for me, young trumps old every time. But in certain older folk, there’s a mysterious something that makes them magnetically attractive, that doesn’t strike ye olde (fine, fine, young) libido like a punch to the gut, but sneaks up and grabs its attention by other means. I suppose that second kind of attraction may grow as I age. Or not. Maybe I’ll be one of those old ladies on the beach making the cabana boys desperately uncomfortable with her off-color jokes and bottom pinching.
May 23, 2008 at 11:35 AM
I don’t agree with a biological determinism views at all. I think they are lame excuses. Men cheat because their genes are trying to reporduce themselves through other women? BS. Men have sex with many women because they want to have a good time. Your genes don’t think.
We all have minds, and we make choices. I think it’s really sad try to deny our locus of control. Things you are attracted to aren’t always good for you. If they were then we’d all be enlightened all ready. We would all be happy and lack for nothing.
People look at teen girls because they are deluded. They think it’s going to be a good time, but then they get dumped or fired or arrested. Now what? More pain.
May 24, 2008 at 8:04 PM
Hi Leroy! Welcome to the blog!
I’m afraid I cannot agree with you about the role of genes. It seems to me any species that was not somehow motivated to pass on its genes would have gone extinct long ago. I reckon we’ll just have to agree to disagree on that one.
May 29, 2008 at 1:17 AM
I must admit I’m really disturbed that you guys so blatantly admit to being attracted to teen girls. And that makes me so hideously old- at 22. Why bother continuing in a relationship when the older I get, the less attractive I will be? I feel as if I should expect my man (5 years my senior) will be attracted to all of the 15/16/17/18/19 year old girls running around after reading about this stuff. I feel as if I can’t compare, nor compete. What if we were still together when I was 30… should I be worried the high schoolers will be that much more attractive and will be any man’s fantasy? Grrr. I’m not trying to insult anyone. But this hits upon my insecurities and makes me feel worthless in all the face of these teenage girls! They are kids for christ’s sake. For the record, I find older men attractive, not boys. Men in their mid to late 20’s and 30’s.
May 29, 2008 at 1:32 AM
Hi Melanie! Welcome to the blog!
I’m afraid I can’t agree with your assumption that the older a woman gets the less attractive she gets. There are many things that make a person attractive. Younger women tend to have some things in their favor — such as looks — but older women tend to have other things in their favor — such as confidence. It does not distract from the attractiveness of older women to recognize that their younger sisters can be attractive too.
June 8, 2008 at 9:17 PM
Hi- your blog is a really cool & interesting one so I bookmarked it
I didn’t mean that I feel that older women look unattractive, but I just get the feeling from many men that they prefer younger girls’ looks to older women anyday. For example, I see around me how like a 30 year old man, would rather be with an 18 year old as opposed to a 25-30 year old woman. I just don’t get that.. I don’t want to be 30/40 and only have confidence going for me. I want to be 30/40 and have grown men say “she’s hot” rather than the neighbor’s teen daughter. I know that looks are not everything and personality counts. I don’t mean to come off as shallow in any way. It’s just that, I wish 30/40 and older women would be considered just as hot and sexy for their looks as 16 year olds! I just don’t want to be an old married wife one day with a husband whose eyes linger on his friends teen daughters. I live in a small rural county where a lot of adult/teen relationships go on and I totally disagree with it. My friends and I feel like it diminishes our self-worth sometimes. I just want men to realize that teens are not always the prime physical ideal and hope they find their older wives just as physically and sexually attractive.
I know I sound completely insecure, so be it, but I just hope that not every man finds teens attractive. My boyfriend swears that he doesn’t but everytime I read stuff like that I feel suspicious. Sorry to go on and on and on like this though, about a biological thing I can’t change.
June 9, 2008 at 4:11 PM
Hi Melanie! Thanks for bookmarking the blog!
I think I see what you’re saying now. I tend to give your boyfriend some creditability because I don’t think every man feels women much younger than him are sexually attractive. Beautiful, maybe, but that’s not quite the same thing as sexually attractive.
Dr. Theresa Crenshaw, who is an author and sex therapist, asserts that it is especially true of older men. A 35 year old man might find a 20 year old woman more attractive than a 35 year old woman. But a 50 year old man is much less likely to find a 20 year old woman more attractive than a 50 year old woman.
I think Dr. Crenshaw is substantially right. I once hung around dozens of people in their teens and early twenties when I was in my 40s. Those younger women were less likely to turn me on than were women closer to my own age. And that was the case despite several of the younger women were physically gorgeous.
I was making an effort to be celibate at the time and so I was acutely aware of how much easier it was for me to be comfortably celibate with women much younger than me than it was to be comfortably celibate with women close to my own age. In the first years after I decided to become celibate, I backslid a few times — but always with women close to my age. Never with any of the much younger women I knew at the time — they were tempting but not tempting enough. (I would never say such things to their faces, though — I want to survive to a ripe old age.
)
For those and other reasons, Melanie, I think there are at least some men out there more attracted to women their own age than to women much younger than them.
June 16, 2008 at 10:49 AM
Leroy, while “genes” don’t think genetically derived sexual desire does exist, and it leads to tendencies in behavior.
Yes, humans think, and they should, but too often young adults turn off their brains and just go with what feels good — men and women alike.
In response to Melanie, I too find young women attractive to look at. However, listening to the thoughts and insecurities of the average late-teen/early 20’s woman/girl is about as sexually exciting as the odour of a crap soiled diaper.
Who wants to deal with little clubhopping he-said-she-said gossips who think about little more than clothes, hair, nails blah blah?
Ick!
I barely put up with that rubbish when I was younger. Anyone who actually wants that in a partner has something seriously wrong with them.
(Incidentally, a message to the young women who think men actually listen to you talk on and on regarding such fascinating (crap) topics as emerge from the ocular absorption of celebrity gossip rags, or a rambling verbal essay that should properly be titled “What My Best Friends Boyfriends Sister Did Last Week”…
They don’t listen to such rubbish. Really, they don’t. They are imagining you topless and nodding. Girls.. do the world a favor and find something else to talk about. Please.)
Having to deal with it in a partner today would be like having aforementioned celeb gossip magazines rolled into points and shivved into both of my ears. Unnecessary, annoying, and very, very painful.
While it is repellent (or should be) for an adult to deal with the immature thoughts and insecurities of many young women, it should be expected for them to be this way to some extent and is normal .
It is considerably more concerning and unattractive for those childish thoughts and insecurities to remain as a woman matures, as often does sadly happen.
That said, I am attracted to many women my age, and occasionally somewhat older – so long as they have matured mentally and emotionally, and not just physically.
It is a crime that so many women rely on their physical attractiveness to get so much in life – they don’t bother maturing in other ways until it is too late.
By the time many women are in their early thirties or so, though they are still physically attractive, they may find that their looks aren’t getting them what they want any more. By this stage they may posses little maturity or emotional development.
The shallow prick that they married in their early 20’s is still a shallow prick, but now he is looking elsewhere.
Being a shallow prick, however, even if his wife had matured and developed properly he would still most likely be looking elsewhere – in fact in that case he may even have developed the haunting feeling that she had outgrown him.
Ladies, here is the lesson. Enjoy being young and pretty, preserve it by all means, but also develop a strong, mature and capable inner self – it will never let you down.
Sadly, if you were unlucky enough to get one of those shallow pricks for a husband you may lose him, but that’s fine – wave him goodbye, he isn’t worth it. Here is why: If you have developed your personality and matured properly, there are guys like me who don’t expect women to stay puppies forever.
Life is just a one-shot so try to get it right as you go.
June 16, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Hi, Octothorn! Welcome to the blog! Thank you for some interesting comments!
June 19, 2008 at 11:22 AM
Well, I am attracted to women 18-24 and really after that I have a hard time being attracted to them. I do not have kids and am 28. Alot of people say I have a penchant for younger women, but in reality I cannot find myself attracted to women older than about 24 or 25. The only problem seems to be reverse agism where these women 18-21 will suddenly lose interest when they know I am 28, I guess I look younger too. It kind of sucks, I have on more than one occasion lied about my age because of it. I don’t feel good about it, but I feel it is something that has to be done sometimes.
June 23, 2008 at 7:32 AM
Sorry I’m a bit late to the party, but the question is a bit flawed.
It’s not just teens.
Why do men look at (xxxxx) nudity? Where xxxxx can and will be: teen, adult, 18+, -18, 20’s 30’s , 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, (dare I go to 70?), grama, grandpa, skinny, fat, men, women , girls, boys, animals, short, tall, freaky, nice, petite, plus, normal, average, wierd, alien…….
You can also replace men with women in the question.
June 23, 2008 at 8:35 AM
You’re only fashionably late to the party, Jeff! Thanks for dropping in!
You offer an interesting perspective, but it’s not one that I happen to entirely share. For one thing, I think men are more visually oriented than women in this particular matter. Also, I think there’s a genuine question of why at least some men are attracted to the looks of women far younger than themselves.
June 23, 2008 at 8:45 AM
As a 39 year old man married to a 23 year old woman, I was attracted to her because the local singles scene is horrible. I wouldn’t have dated most women her age (she was legal at the time, btw). Even though I look really young, it still seems icky to hit on women young enough to be my daughter. But she asked me, and I’m only human.
June 23, 2008 at 8:56 AM
That’s fascinating, Autonomous! Two of the happiest marriages I know of have partners 20 years apart.
June 23, 2008 at 10:13 AM
There are many good points here, but I especially appreciate Brendan’s, which I have always felt was a factor but not seen written down before. I too believe there is a powerful and lasting association with one’s first or most striking sexual and emotional experiences, and this explains why most pedophiles were subjected to pedophilia themselves as children. In later life it becomes a fantasy that sticks and colors both desires and perceptions, in part by guiding experiences (self-reinforcing).
I think teen nudity is attractive to men for all of the reasons in the comments above, and the relative mix of them differs from person to person and drives preferences and behaviors. I also think there is a cultural expectation, clearly expressed in the porn industry, that men will prefer to see nude teens. Interestingly, the porn industry seems to have broadened to include all ages and much more variety over the past couple of decades, possibly reflecting a number of changes in society including the aging of the “boomers”, the advancement of women, etc.
Personally, I have always been most attracted to mature, self-possessed, intelligent women. That doesn’t mean I don’t find nude teens interesting to look at, but I understand the reality – the whole person is much different than the image. In fact, I would contend that most men can NOT completely control their eyes, whether it is looking at an attractive woman or an attractive car … but they get in trouble with their wives for looking at an attractive woman at the wrong time. Instinct is undeniably powerful.
Thanks to Paul and all for a very interesting and thoughtful item. – Tim
June 23, 2008 at 11:58 PM
Hey, Tim! I couldn’t agree with you more if I had written your comments myself!
June 24, 2008 at 12:55 AM
when i was a teenager in the 90′,s the role models were linda evangelista, christy turlington, naomi campbell the beauties and they were all around 20 something when really popular and all around a size 6, without implants. i think it;’s marketing, porn and media with reality tv. now it’s all about barely legal and size zero with huge implants. also the models of the 90’s didn’t have to have huge breasts to be on the cover. they were and are still simply beautiful women. maybe men weren;t so intimidated, maybe the 90’s generation had a bit more standards and integrity as to what was right, wrong and crossing the line.. the only allure to a 15 year old is her body, she is easily impressed by things adults have, easily manipulated…idk, i don’t understand why a man would want to be with a child instead of a woman. i guess it makes them feel like a “big” man. less experienced girl, or something like that. good question though. perhaps bc it’s taboo and popular all at the same time. we’ve been using womens bodies to sell products for a long time. it’s odd though bc i believe men still rule the fashion industry as far as designers, so they are the ones handing out the role models. calvin klein got in some trouble a couple of years ago for crossing the line…
June 24, 2008 at 2:57 PM
men are stupid that’s why
June 24, 2008 at 3:14 PM
Hi Madeau! Welcome to the blog!
I don’t think it’s stupid to look at beauty, do you?
I think it’s stupid to pine for something you can’t have. But that strikes me as quite different than looking at a beautiful young woman.
June 24, 2008 at 3:20 PM
Hi, D! Welcome to the blog!
If I had my way — that is, if my personal tastes were by some miracle the social norm — then society would not make so much of 15 year olds. I don’t mean society would disparage 15 year olds. Just that society would not hold 15 year olds up as its ideal woman.
June 30, 2008 at 4:07 PM
The blossom is most beautiful when first it blooms, not when it starts to whither.
The thing is, the blossom first blooms long before anyone thinks it does in this society. Girls hit puberty at what, 10 years old? For most of history, young teens were made into wives so they could start bearing children as soon as possible. Our culture has managed to make children think they’re still children until they’re 18. We’ve created this awkward stage where kids are sort of still kids, but aren’t really. In our society, we have to frantically try to keep kids from having sex from the time they’re physically ready for it until the time they’re mentally ready for it. In essence, we’ve once again diverged from our own biology.
Why do men look at teen nudity? Because teenage girls are the prime examples of fertility. That’s history talking. Men look because of teenage girls’ playful bubbliness. Because of the youthful joy in their eyes. Because of their lust for adventure. Also, because teenage girls are out of their reach. Because our society says it’s wrong for old men to like young women. Because teenage girls are becoming aware of their sexuality and tease men in any way they can. Because they dress to show off their bodies. Men look at teen nudity because despite all the fear and taboo about pedophilia, teenage girls are hot.
July 1, 2008 at 1:03 AM
Kyle,
You seem to be missing the point. There is a reason for the fear and taboo about pedophilia. It’s that humans are still children even at age 18. Teens’ brains have not fully developed yet. Their cortexes are still incomplete. They do not have the judgement or developed ego to keep themselves safe and sane. They can be traumatized by a pedofile who choses to act on his desires. They deserve the protection of adults who don’t intend to use them for personal satisfaction without regard to their wellbeing. Please rethink the consequences of pedophilia.
July 1, 2008 at 5:13 AM
@Kyle: Hi, and welcome to the blog!
I think these things might be matters of taste. For instance: It is difficult for me to imagine a girl of, say, 16 being more sexually attractive than a woman twice her age. It’s true the 16 year old most likely has smoother skin and a taunter body, but the 32 year old most likely possesses an openness, confidence, and wisdom that the 16 year old cannot compete with. Perhaps whether one is more attracted to one or the other depends on one’s priorities?
Having said all that, I would like to add that I don’t equate sexual maturity with either physical, intellectual, or emotional maturity. So far as I know, a girl of 16 is still an adolescent, and usually pretty far from being an adult, despite that she can reproduce. That’s to say, I think adolescence is actually a biological stage, and not a social construct.
@ Maria: Welcome to the blog!
I agree that it is both wise and necessary for society to do what it can to protect young people from exploitative relationships. According to at least one study, for instance, girls of 13 or so are far more likely to get pregnant if their boyfriends are 21 or 22, than if their boyfriends are 14 or even 15.
July 3, 2008 at 12:55 AM
What an interesting and well-written blog! (I stumbled here through blognosh.) I think this might be one of the most civil and thoughtful (while also provocative) discussions I’ve ever seen in a comments section.
So, when I read this post, it rang a porn bell for me. That is, I thought about all the porn popping up in my porn searches that I’ve avoided on account of its blatantly underage creepiness. I envisioned grown men ogling the 14-18 age set –the range I normally classify as teenagers, because they live with their parents and go to high school and are adolescents. Past that is for me, a special “late teen” subcategory, and below it is pre-teen — or so goes my definition.
So, I was surprised to find so many comments in reference to “youth” in general, and on why lots of older fellows like to look at twenty-somethings (I don’t mean that commenters were just talking about 20-somethings, just that the the 20-somethings were often bracketed into the same category as the teenagers). To me, the smooth-skinned, perky 18-24 age set of women is miles different, not only sexually, emotionally, and intellectually, but also phsysically, from teenagers who are minors. I think of minors as people who are not yet fully physically developed. In my opinion, the attraction toward this set of teenagers is specific to our perception of their undeveloped-ness, and cannot be explained simply by claims of admiration for tautness and suppleness and absence of wrinkles and liver spots. You can find all that in a 20-year-old, and lots of 28-year-olds, and many 35-year-olds.
A guy who seeks out porn in which the stars are 15, 16, or even “barely legal” isn’t just looking for smooth skin. I think it has to do with power and innocence, with contrasting his experience with her inexperience, and with lots of other things, perhaps including a sheerly aesthetic preference, but it’s not just about perfect skin or athleticism or prettiness. (Actually, it’s definitely not about athleticism. Come to think of it, contrast our ideas about the athleticism associated with youth with our ideas about the innocence associated with the aesthetic qualities of the bodies of teenage girls. Athleticism in youth is, to me, an 18-26 thing, not a definition of the body of a 15-year-old girl. 15-year-old girls are weak and soft compared with some young, 23-year-old woman who happens to be all fit and muscle-bound.)
I keep thinking that up until adolescence ends, the musculature of the body is not fully developed and so teenage girls have a soft look to them, which is young in the sense of childishness, and not just prettiness. The body hasn’t yet filled out, the curves aren’t fully developed, the face hasn’t even filled out. They kind of look like adults, but they totally also look like children. The question is an interesting one, of what men (men specifically, not just women, too) sometimes find sexually attractive in that aesthetic aspect of childishness that teenagers have. I realize that not all teenagers look “not fully developed,” but there is a whole section of the porn industry that looks for teenagers who do kind of look like kids, and maybe for some men it’s acceptable because they aren’t really kids, they’re in between.
I’m attracted to women, and I’m 22, and I occasionally find a teenager attractive, but I tend to feel awfully dirty about it when that happens because I can see that aspect of childishness in the way she looks. Maybe I’m more likely to feel bad about it because I’m a woman and so I’ve been conditioned in many ways to be attracted to people with experience. . .obviously that conditioning doesn’t guarantee that I will always be attracted to people older than me, but maybe it causes me to feel embarrassed when I see beauty in someone who’s younger.
By the way, I think the question of older men being attracted to 20-somethings is thought-provoking, too, and I think lots of the other commenters have said interesting things about it, but I just wanted to bring up my ideas about there being a distinction between someone being youthful (and containing all the ideals of perfection our society binds to youthfulness) and someone looking like they have a touch of “child” in their face and body.
July 5, 2008 at 3:22 PM
Gues il bump the blog
I just found this today, and read through it. Honestly i don’t even remember what i was searching to come across this i gues its because i spent too much reading this whole page. I find all of you peoples comments interesting so i thought i would put in my opinions and have some questions of my own. Im sorry for any misspelling or bad grammer im 17 but i know somethings.
First my opinion on why older men find younger women attractive is because the body is stil fresh and immature. Thats not how i see it though, i’d rather look at women in the ages of 20-28, just the ones i’v seen in those ages i find attractive, and i’d rather have converstaions with women 25-40 maby its because their vocabulary contains more words than “OMG, NO!?” and so on. Now im not sure where im going with this but some men (not me) also tend to look at porn with older men and young women, and i think the reason of that is because they wan’t to know whats going on in those two heads while thats going on. I doubt anyone here will honestly say they have never watched porn, if they do then im sorry. I’d rather watch it if it has women older than me, because it gets me thinking of how much better i would feel if an older girl liked me. I’m not saying i wouldn’t look at a teen girl because they do have nice bodies but to me immatureness is a bad thing and only with an older person is where you get enjoyment out of it. I also don’t think all men look at teen nudity, its just those with unsuccesful marriages, or ones feeling lonely. Reason is because probebly when they were teens their life was going good, and they want to go back to that age again. People have different opinions in how girls look, like my friend for example bragged about his girlfriend and how good looking she was, when i saw her their was nothing beutiful about her but i wasn’t going to tell him that but im just thinking hes going to be one of the people with a succesful marriage, because he sees something in women that most men don’t see. I don’t know if this has anything to do with the topic but i stil love watching cartoons, all my friends love watching action movies i’d rather just sit and watch animations like wall-E for instance, great movie and other cartoons that were at their best in the late 90s and 200-2003 but the reason i watch them is i hate to see my self getting older, maby that has something to do with men liking younger girls.
July 5, 2008 at 8:01 PM
From my experience Brenden is bang on…my fondest memories are of sexual awakening and the emotions surrounding them…
July 5, 2008 at 11:09 PM
@Andrea: Hi, and welcome to the blog!
I think you’ve made a very important distinction between girls in their early and mid teens and women in their late teens and early twenties. That happens not to be a distinction I was myself making — an oversight on my part.
Very interesting comments. Thank you!
@ Mike: Hi and welcome!
You reminded me of how when I was much younger — around your age — I was attracted to older women, too.
@ Stu: I somewhat envy your and Brendan’s ability to recall your sexual awakenings. At 51, it gets harder and harder to remember those things in any detail, or with any accuracy.
July 6, 2008 at 1:04 PM
Inclinations differ from actions. There was a time when we told children that it was bad of them to feel angry. It was a great step forward to tell them that such feelings were natural but they must not act on them by hitting people.
As I see it, evolution has equipped most men to find females of our species sexually attractive when they look sexually mature, which as Kyle said isn’t uncommon at age 10 these days. The point American society has not yet reached is telling these men that while they must not act on these feelings, it is natural to have them. There is one supreme reason why older men must not act on such attractions: it can be extraordinarily harmful to the girls involved, even if they don’t think so at the time. We must do our utmost to avoid something as simple as looking too much.
Most of us men naturally develop and use other criteria to decide which women we actually want to be involved with, which includes age-appropriateness. It doesn’t make the gut-level feeling of attraction to the girls go away, however.
I have far more to say on the subject. What I would love to do is convince Maria (and eventually, everyone of similar views) to accept the inclinations along with condemning the behavior.
July 8, 2008 at 6:03 PM
I think most of you are just over over looking the obvious. Teen girls are just hot. Call me a perv if you like. However think about it. Most teen girls have a great body figure, that really, they don’t have to do much to keep. As girls/guys age, it becomes much harder to keep the “handles” from forming.
Its almost the new car analogy. The new car has the new smell, fresh lines, and shiny paint. There is no maintenance involved to keep it nice at first.
Teen girls are in great shape (most anyways). Skin is tight, breasts are usually firm, and they tend to have a tight butt. Plus, anymore, girls that age SHOW OFF the goods as much as possible. If you go to a mall and are able to go for more than 5 minutes without seeing a thong sticking out of some teens shorts/pants …well school must still be in session.
Does this mean that older women are not attractive/sexy? NO, they are. However if you see three women walking down a hallway and they are ages 18, 25, and 35…you will find that the younger they are, the more sexy the outfit they will wear to draw attention to them. The 35 year old, while most likely sexy will be wearing more casual clothing that is more age appropriate.
So why do men look at teen porn? Because teen girls are in the prime of their lives, and yes they also seem to convey incense.
It should also be noted that a lot of guys are attracted to virgins, and teens are a more likely source of virgins. As the age goes up, the chances of finding a virgin goes down.
Just my observations.
July 19, 2008 at 11:24 PM
Personally I think society has a huge part to play on this matter. Let me give you an example. In the 1970’s we had shows like All in the Family and Adam 12. In the 1980’s it was Family Ties and Hill Street Blues. 1990’s it was Charmed and the beginning of Reality TV. Now look at TV today.. People in the 1950s and 1960s did not talk about the thing we talk about today. They did not see the things we see today.
Porn is so easy to access on the internet that we have become desensitised to it. Just like the amount of violence.
Dont get me wrong I understand why things have changed. A large part of that is for the monitary gains. Would you buy perfume from a commercial showing a woman in her 50s or from a woman in her late teens who looks smooth and beautiful.
Let me ask you this. Why is it we are seeing more and more woman having sex with underage boys?
Youth makes us feel young. Gives us the impression we can do the things we used to do when we were that young.
Try this as well, Do you think we would have this problem if we lived in a society that had no clothes?
I’m glad i found this site and hope you are still talking about this.
I hope I did not offend anyone here. Im in my forties personally and do like to look at porn. I think we all look at porn in one way or another.
July 20, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Hey im 18 and i hate being clased as a women cause i think of a woman as 30s 40s nd above its mad how a 17 is a girl but 18 is suddenly a woman. Anyway i seen this question and found it funny maybe i can offer my view.
I was in the pub with my mam last night and men in there 30s were lukin at me which i can deal wit bt any older and i hate it, esspecially because i look yunger and its pervy anyway this 50 sumthn rod stewart wannabe came and kised my cheek and then pretended that he thought i was someone else which was crap cause he was wachn me allnyt! I think he was horny and attracted to me cause i am pretty and youthful looking but also cause a lot of the older women were with men or they were too sophisticated looking which skares men off! I think men just fancy young girls its like when uv had a dog for 5 yrs its cute n all but then a new puppy comes along there always guna be cuter and more desired just deal with it! And women stop being jealous of teens cause remember you were a teen once!
July 21, 2008 at 10:34 AM
@ Scott:
“Why is it we are seeing more and more woman having sex with underage boys?”
Because it’s being reported more. It always went on; we just didn’t hear about it on the news.
@ Jen:
“its like when uv had a dog for 5 yrs its cute n all”
No, we can’t dance together. No, we can’t talk at all. (Steely Dan, “Hey, Nineteen)
Sure, kittens are cute – but give me a cat who knows who she is and isn’t shy about asserting herself, any day.
- M.
July 28, 2008 at 6:42 AM
women in their teens and even early 20’s have not mentally developed yet. The brain inside their head is still child like. It doesnt matter which one has matured enough for you to talk to. No matter what they say they have been through. A woman matures at age 25 and a man is said to age at 37. To think human beings will take even longer to realize this is sad. Girls doing performing in pornographpic acts of sexuality in their adolescence live lives of regret or no return. They are young and childlike. 30 year old men used to marry 13 and 14 year olds. In our society we are beyond this. There is a time when a older human could realize this is inappropriate and harmful. A man who desires to see flesh who’s mind hasn’t developed enough to think is considered a pervert. So everyone that has written thus far has perplexed me that males and females have not culturally evolved to realize this is an excuse. Turn into a human focused on hobbies, friends, family and making a successful living. Realize who you are and what you are doing. Life is a beautiful thibg at all ages and a woman is sexy at all ages. I am 25 and feel confident about my future 40’s. Good luck!
July 31, 2008 at 12:16 PM
I still say that society has a part to do with this. If people did not offer teen nudity out there then people (men and women) would not try to find it.
Meowlin; If this has been going on like you say it has, then why is it women dont receive the same sentence as men when they are caught.
Amber; You give an excuse for women under 25 and men under 37 to do what they want because they are still child like. Sorry cant agree with you on that.
August 7, 2008 at 2:38 AM
hello. im a 14 year old girl. i can assure you though that im not the typical ” child”. the ” under-developed, mentally immature, and highly incapable” human being that some of you are making it out that most teenagers are. yes, some teenagers are what you would call a late bloomer. i find it rare though. i am in high school naturally and have been around teens like myself. i would say almost every ” child” attending my high school do not resemble a kid. id say almost every girl is physically developed. they are menstruating and their bodily forms reflect a young woman rather then a child.
in my opinion a ” kid” so to speak is a human being in the early developmental stages of life where they haven reached puberty or have just started puberty.
a ” girl” in my definition is a female whose sexual organs have not fully matured. in my opinion, when a girl begins menarche she converts from a girl to a young woman. for, she can reproduce.
sure, most of the ” youth folk” out there may lack emotional maturity but that goes for the older crowd too. my father, whom is 42, still acts like a child. he makes poor decisions and is just overall very immature. technically; however, he is an ” adult”. why is he anymore of an adult then a mature, physically and emotionally developed young man in his teens or early 20’s? is this because he has led a longer life? experienced a few more years. so that makes him more intelligent and capable?
sorry, but that theory and way of thinking just strikes me as inane and ridiculous. i know what im going on about is completely off topic but i just couldnt hold my feelings and strong opinions back. to be completely honest, this entire topic and what a lot of people wrote completely offended me. i am a young woman in my teens. i do not want to be discriminated and judged just because i lack what the older folk do in age. that is unfair.
i am not underdeveloped, i do not have the body of a child, nor do i have the mind of a child. i am completely aware of my surroundings, completely capable of making decisions, and as far as i am concerned am relatively intelligent. i am not any dumber then the average 40 something year old. id like to be taken seriously. id like to have a say in the world of politics and voice my opinion freely. and yes, i am young so naturally i am youthful, fresh, almost new in a way. cleansed. free of old age and wear and tear. i should not automatically be labeled as ” immature though, and incapable” or even a ” child” i am a young woman who would love to be treated like one instead of a child.
oh yes and AMBER, guess what, sure i may be 14, but my mind has definitely developed enough to be able to think. it is functioning properly and efficiently last time i checked. for you to say something like that offends me greatly. in fact, that is the biggest insult to me. \
biologically, i am a young woman at her sexual prime. i can reproduce and follow my duties of bringing another life into this world. i may be young, but i am not, by ANY circumstances, foolish, immature, unintelligent, vulnerble, inexperienced, or underdeveloped.
August 7, 2008 at 4:16 AM
Dear Alicia,
Thank you for the recent comment you left on my blog. You had much to say of importance to me and I haven’t digested it fully yet, but I just wanted to drop you a quick note apologizing for any offense I might have unintentionally caused you by referring to young women as “kids”. At 50, my current age, a kid is to me a term of endearment I use in reference to my friends who are younger than me. I do not mean it to be belittling. But I will certainly consider using a different term from now on because — as you’ve shown — it can be mistaken for belittling.
August 8, 2008 at 5:30 PM
I classify a young girl from 18 to 24. There’s a difference between a young girl and a young woman.
Young girls tend to not think things through. of the long term consequences.
Lacking emotional maturity and common sense. emphasizing on the present fads, rather than the present.
following your heart or listening to your head is downright stupid.
Listen to your conscience.
There’s right and wrong, no such thing as ,oral relativity.
Rather than thinking about sex and the whole empowerment routine or whichever BS crap nowadays, youths should enjoy life while they’re still young. (children shouldn’t be robbed of their childhood.)
forget about sex.
If there’s any blame to be made, its Hollywood, feminists and pseudo experts, who think they know what they’re doing.
Face it, feminists hates the female species more so, than anything. making total domination second and complete elimination of the males third on their list
The female species had taken for granted what others in different parts of the world never experienced, freedom and human dignity.
Women in other parts of the world are considered as property and doormats. In worse case, like toilet paper after wiping one’s rear end after doing the deed, being flushed down the drain.
Society had already degenerated, and going downhill.
being aboriginal, before my pappy was born, in the old days, young girls were arranged to be married to another. life was harder for women in general.
Men were expected to be in their roles, but then again we let down the creator.
philosophical stand point
in loose translation humanity screwed up big time.
women are not supposed to act like animals.
Likewise as men are not supposed to act like animals.
August 8, 2008 at 5:36 PM
There’s right and wrong, no such thing as moral relativity.
sorry about the typo above.
Oh yeah, there are old dogs who lack manners.
August 11, 2008 at 4:53 PM
Hi B! It seems I disagree with most everything you’ve said. But thank you for your comments.
August 14, 2008 at 2:12 PM
hmm, interesting topic. i think i may have something for the conversation. i decided to get married when i was 19. my husband was 36 at the time. i think youth can be attractive for more reasons than appearence. its an age when you have boundless energy and enthusiasm for life. the years tend to calm a person down a bit. still enjoy life but just do so at a calmer pace. i think its the enthusiasm that men, and women for that matter find attractive in a younger partner of the opposite sex. my husband had a tendancy to seek out older women for lovers b4 the two of us became an item. sometimes just a couple years older than himself , sometime quite a bit older. i think he enjoyed being the overexitable youth in the relationship, hes also comented that older women are strong and confedent, where as alot of young women can be needy and insecure.
anyway you look at it, women are attractive, weather it be the young bubbly women, or the older woman with a sort of sexual magnetism. regaurdless of what attracts someone into a relationship, what will keep 2 people together and attracted to oneanother is being about the same things. the big issues. religion, polatics, do u want children.. how will u raise them? its less about looking inward at each other, and more about if you can look outward in one direction together. i immagine my husband will allways look at women, younger and older. i am not blind to other men, there are plenty to see. the only morality issue i see here is if a person knows a child and watches as she grows into a teen. then becomes sexual twards that girl. he should still veiw her as a child. knowing someone as a child tends to make us veiw that person as a child long after their bodies have grown to apear adult. if one of my friends began showing sexual intrest in my daughter once she had reached her teens, i would likely beat the man with a baseball bat. even though alot of girls look grown up in their teens, many have still more child in them than adult. 18 is leagle, but in most cases its still a grey area. there are men out there fooling around with 12 yr old girls because they look so very much more adult now than ever before. 12 yr old girls walking around with double D cups now days. check the I.D.s guys, looks be damned ,the girls are still 12 yr old girls. and even though she may look 20 to you, its still makes you a child molester if you,… well u know. so there is a moral issue i supose it lies with the overlap of the childhood yrs and the physical apearence of sexual maturity. as to what B says above,.. if we were lions on the savana, the old saying would be accurate”old enough to bleed, old enough to breed”. but we are not animals , and we need to use better judgement in general as a society concearning sex. feminism has been set back 50 yrs. our oversexualised media is to blame, feminism however rough some of its loyal followers may be, is a concept with the cause of letting women be people and not forced to be objects. women were objectified as house keepers and baby makers, now women are sexual displays and nothing more. if we believe differently, it will become different. this dribble about a woman thinking she will get less attractive just because her number increases, just how male supremasists would love u to feel. anything that breaks women apart as a group. racial issues are a culpret in keeping women divided and weak aswel but thats another blog entirely. thanks 4 the rant, till next time.
August 14, 2008 at 11:08 PM
Hi Amanda! I agree with women are beautiful at all ages. Thanks for a great rant!
September 9, 2008 at 6:37 AM
i recently discovered that my boyfriend is looking at porn quite frequently. he forked out money for a website which features teens all of which surprised me since he has not so much money on account of just becoming a high school teacher. (used to teach college) I look at porn myself occasionally and we’ve talked about the fact that we both do this. but somehow coming upon (not snooping, but seeing it on the history of the computer) at this time and the fact that it’s teens and that he’s been so swamped with the new job we barely have time together, all makes me feel uncomfortable. I know intellectually it may make no sense, but i feel sick about it. The teen part, i also intuitively understand and i think one thing that nobody mentioned is the concept of taboo, which i think is a whole other layer of why it’s attractive. But because he is just starting as a teacher, and i’m 40, and am dealing with my own aging issues (though i look pretty good for my age) what do any of you think about this? i dont want him to feel that his privacy was invaded, but i do want to discuss with him. how to?
September 9, 2008 at 3:46 PM
Hi Penny!
Welcome to the blog!
If I correctly understand your situation from your comment, then I agree you should discuss it with your boyfriend. However, I think there are some things you might want to take into account while planning how to discuss it with him.
Of course, I’m speaking here from my own male perspective.
According to some studies I’ve seen over the years, most men masturbate even when they are in a committed relationship and are sexually satisfied with their partners. If that does not at first make sense to you, think “variety is the spice of life”.
Second, it sounds to me like your boyfriend is having fantasies about teens. Yet, there’s a huge difference between liking to fantasize about teens, and wanting to have actual sex with teens. Most of us have sexual fantasies that we would not want to have happen. So, it’s most likely your boyfriend enjoys fantasizing about teens, but would not do anything to realize his fantasies.
Last, so far as I know, the biggest turn on in the world is a confident, sexy middle aged woman. A woman’s attitude towards having sex with me has consistently been more important to me than her looks.
Now, as for how to bring the issue up with your boyfriend, I would use gentle, non-accusatory humor. Get him laughing about it and you can discuss anything.
I’m sorry that I have no better advice to offer you than what I have.
September 15, 2008 at 9:04 AM
I was specifically looking for a web page with some specific information regarding older men and teen porn sites. Very interesting to read all the comments, particularly by the men as I was seeking a man’s insight.
I am a 4o yr old woman with two young teenagers (12 and 16).
I recently discovered my husband,42 yrs, was looking at TEEN porn movies…this actaully sickened me.(well I guess I should say I recently come to realize the truth..in fact I had discovered the teen porn before but he somehow lied his way out of it and I believed him).
I think it is natural to appreciate youth/beauty-as we do with all things in life. Even as a mother I will often say “oh he is a good looking young man”…or “she is a very pretty girl” with no sexual intent. I assume guys recognize a pretty or handsome face when they see it. And I assumed most men couldn’t resist looking at nude PICTURES/video of younger women if it took their fancy-thinking a woman in her 20’s or thirties would be more age appropriate for an older man) ..but teen porno movies?… not acceptable for me.
And to the woman Penny re. her BF who is a teacher who may only be fantazing..I think you have legit concerns. The simply fact of being a teacher, surrounded by teenagers 5 days a week and having this desire or fantasy puts him at a significant higher risk to act on his fantasy. Not saying he would but just saying a much higher risk …
September 15, 2008 at 9:39 AM
Thank you for such well thought out comments, Deana! On reflection, I reckon you could be right that being a teacher of teens might increase the odds of someone’s acting on their fantasies of having sex with teens. I hadn’t thought of that, at first, because I was focused on what seems to be the fact the vast majority of people do not act on their fantasies — at least not their more anti-social ones.
September 16, 2008 at 12:21 AM
I think that men look at and pursue teenagers/women much younger than they are because of all the images they see everyday. The beauty of women above 30 is rarely glorified or flashed in popular magazines or tv. It’s sad that living well and homes and Gardens are one of the ew magazines that an older sophisticated woman can feel like the majority. When sports illustrated and fashion magazines decide to be fair in their depictions of beauty racially, age wise and culture wise, then perhaps gullible people won’t be brain washed into believing beauty comes out of one box. I could never understand the whole blondes have more fun nonsense. As I’ve aged (26) I realize that there are many people who choose to be swayed into being unhappy with themselves their life and their partner. A man who looks at a teen as a sex object is a predator, plain and simple. Hopefully, the teen he pursues is smart enough to know her worth.
September 16, 2008 at 1:00 AM
Lisa, I think there might be more than one reason why men look at nude teens, and I believe you have brilliantly put your finger on one of the big ones. If you look back through time at Hollywood stars I think you will find that 50 or 60 years ago the ideal woman those stars represented was older and more sophisticated than today’s ideal woman. At least a decade older, in most cases. That would indicate to me that tastes have changed in what people consider the most desirable women — and, like you, I think the fashion and entertainment industries have a huge influence on those tastes.
As for your comment about sexual predators, I would only like to add that anyone — regardless of gender — who sees another person as just or only a sex object is debasing that person.
Thank you for a well thought out and engaging comment.
September 21, 2008 at 7:59 PM
Hello All,
I first wanted to offer my congratulations to Paul for hosting such an intense “debate” as to ‘Why do men look at teen nudity.’ Very good job with moderating (I’m sure you had a lot!) and keeping everything cordial.
Now I would like to share a bit about myself that not very many people are aware of. I am a 25 year old male that is a virgin. Yes a straight out virgin, never even fooled around with a girl before; and no it is not because I promised something or because of religion.
First a little background…
I went into High School with five close guy friends and two close girl friends. We never partied, never drank, never smoked, never stayed out late, nothing. We were ‘geeks’ to the very definition of the word. We played Magic the Gathering, skipped lunches to play networked Descent in the architecture room and eventually moved into Quake and the like.
School was absolutely miserable for me, I was extremely anti-social (not a goth) and was lucky if I talked to anybody during the day unless it was a friend. The primary change occurred on April 20th, 1999 when the Columbine shooting happened (I was going to school in Colorado Springs, CO at the time).
Within five months I had nothing, no friends, no social life at all (besides the extensive network of friends on the internet via the IRC chat rooms). I became withdrawn and didn’t even talk to teachers during the day. My life went into a rapid free-fall and I started to fantasize about things that I was unable to interact with myself, primarily sex and being with women.
And now to tie this all into the topic of this blog…I was 16 when Columbine happened and after that event I started to become attracted to girls that age, 9 years later (it started happening about 5 years ago when I got this feeling). I find this extremely strange because when I was a teenager I only enjoyed talking to women with careers and families because of their intellectual ability to hold a conversation and their seriousness of so many things in life. Now it’s 16-19 year old girls that hold my fancy. Why? Why is it that my brain switched from 30-40 year olds to 16-19 year olds?
Are there any other people out there that have had this happen to them or feel the same way I do? It’s not that I don’t find women my age or older attractive anymore, to the contrary.
All I can assume is that I am trying to relive my past and experience the things that I was unable to experience when I was younger.
I smoked pot, got drunk (I drink alone on the weekends now…), found a career, went to college, and purchased a single family house all before I have been able to fulfill the most important thing in a human beings life, that of procreation and continuance of the race.
I think I completely lost track of where I was going in this memoir of my life and probably forgot about the topic somewhere. Hope someone pulls something useful out of it!
~Michael
September 21, 2008 at 8:06 PM
Oh and I think that the answer to “Why do men look at teen nudity” is because of genetic makeup and the subconsious realization that the requirement to the survival of any living organism is that of procreation and duplication. In order to provide that ability for homo sapians a man must mate with a female. It just so happens that females are in their prime fertile state when they are in their teens. This fertility provides the male with the most likely candidates for successful procreation and the ability to extend the race to infinity and beyond! Even with all that we know about fertility and the ability to force fertility even at older ages the fact remains that a persons natural instinct is hard to overcome and that the older you get the more likely the result will be a failed fertilization or the birth of a non-functioning member of society.
~Michael
September 22, 2008 at 7:16 AM
I came across this site doing research on the subject.
Does anyone else see the connection here?
The men that have posted admit to seeing teen girls as attractive and the women state that they see older men as attractive !!!!!!
Women = attraction to older men/guys
Men = attraction to younger varieties
Anyone else putting 2 and 2 together here?
Ladies, I don’t exactly see to many of you dating men your age. Most if all are older. And how much older are they?
September 22, 2008 at 11:40 AM
Oh yeah and search for this on google, the results are the opposite of what you might think.
“why are older men attracted to girls”
Most come up as ” why are young girls attracted to older men” . A little food for thought.
September 25, 2008 at 8:45 AM
I’m not sure I have a definitive answer to this question but I have a connecting thought that has been rolling around for a bit.
Why are men attracted to online teen nudity when a woman of 25 has a body that looks nearly identical? If that question can be answered in an honest manner, I think you might have your answer.
September 26, 2008 at 8:59 AM
Lady M: “Why are men attracted to online teen nudity when a woman of 25 has a body that looks nearly identical?”
I don’t know – my reaction is like the lines from “Hey, Nineteen” by Steely Dan – “No, we can’t dance together / No, we can’t talk at all…” (I stop short of “Please take me along when you slide on down.”).
But my theory is, it’s the attraction of the forbidden. A case of society saying, “You can’t have this,” so, naturally, they desire it *because* it’s forbidden.
Another part of it may be “The Starship Enterprise Effect,” a fantasy revolving around a desire “to boldly go where no man has gone before.”
- M. \”/
September 26, 2008 at 11:51 AM
I agree completely Meowlin.
September 27, 2008 at 3:10 AM
I think that some men are just shallow, self centered men that find youth and innocence to be more important than being with someone that is intelligent and has strong opinions. They don’t want an actual person so much as an ideal of their perfect female, usually someone that doesn’t understand what a loser they are. They probably can’t handle a real woman, so they go for some empty headed little young thing instead.
September 27, 2008 at 4:45 AM
@AL: I agree some men fit that description, but I think more is going on with most men than just that. Welcome to the blog!
September 27, 2008 at 4:49 AM
@ Michael: I completely agree with your evolutionary analysis of why older men are attracted to younger women. Welcome to the blog!
September 27, 2008 at 9:14 AM
Some of it may be due to natural instincts, but I think there is more to it than that. Some men stay married to the same woman for their entire lives, from age 20 to age 90 and never cheat. Some men can’t stay faithful to one woman for more than a couple of months. I could never be involved with a woman/girl more than 5 years younger than myself, it would just be too weird. We would have nothing in common with each other, and she would be at a completely different stage in her mental development. Besides, I am interested in WOMEN not teenagers. Have you ever seen an 18 year old that can cook? You ask her whats for dinner and she asks you where you’re taking her; with someone in her 30s she at least knows how to take care of her man.
September 27, 2008 at 1:41 PM
@ AL: I agree with you to a point. I think you’ve made some solid observations, but we differ mainly in the emphasis we would put on things, AL. I’m of the opinion that instincts play a much larger role in our preferences than it seems you are of that opinion.
September 27, 2008 at 7:17 PM
Is there any science backing up the theory that teen girls are at their sexual/reproductive peak and that’s why evolutionarily men enjoy looking at teen bodies?
September 28, 2008 at 5:54 AM
I don’t know if there is science backing up the theory about teen girls being more attractive because they are more fertile, but there something called New Cow Theory, which explains why men want to have sex with different women, because there is no reproductive benefit to having sex with someone that is already pregnant. Maybe there is an explanation in there, because what better way to be with someone that has not been “serviced” yet than to be with a virgin?
September 28, 2008 at 9:49 AM
Lady M.: “Is there any science backing up the theory that teen girls are at their sexual/reproductive peak …”
Reproductive, possibly; sexual, no. As I understand it, that occurs a couple of decades later.
Then again, that depends on what you mean by “sexual” – do you mean physical/visual sexual attractiveness (really, as much a function of “the eye of the beholder”), or capacity to desire and enjoy sex?
Al: “I don’t know if there is science backing up the theory about teen girls being more attractive because they are more fertile”
I believe there’s science backing up the idea that teen girls tend to be seen as more attractive because they are *perceived as being* more fertile.
- M. \”/
September 28, 2008 at 11:09 AM
I think it is more our society having double standards for men and women. It is considered desirable for a man to be sexually experienced, but not so for a woman. Sexual inexperience in women is considered a sign of purity, as though women are “soiled” by having sex and children. Historically strong minded women have not been valued or encouraged, because it was seen as a woman’s natural role to be submissive. Her only role was to take care of her family and have children, and many women married early, sometimes as soon as she began menstruating.
September 28, 2008 at 8:41 PM
Finally a depthful conversation about this subject. I agree that yes, by the time a female is ovulating (as early as 10 or 11) the obvious possibilities are present. AND the best eggs drop first so not only do we have age spots the size of dimes BUT are eggs are old and withered. Sweet. I also get the sensual beauty and attraction. To act on it by viewing on teen porn sites is often illegal hello. “all models are 18″ sure thing. anyone can say so, especially if the site is registered in Russia. You know they are not 18. To train sexual arousal towards this is damaging, to the person, the subjects on the web sites, and the people that are in relationships with the hebophile. Sexual stimulation like this requires the anty to go up.
September 28, 2008 at 10:13 PM
@ Meowlin….
I was mostly inquiring as to a woman’s reproductive peak and the consequential arousal of men toward that stimulus. Those stats seem as though they’d be based more on biology and not psychology. We all know female sexual arousal isn’t generally a numbers game geared toward age. Sexual satisfaction (peak years) varies greatly from woman to woman and isn’t as dependent on the age factor as is reproduction.
I’m asking because as a couple of posters have mentioned (I think?
), it’s possible men are attracted to teen girls because they are in their peak reproductive years and it’s an evolutionary response for the men to be especially aroused by them. I’m just not so sure.
First, women have a fairly long reproductive peak lasting well into their latter 20’s. I’ve read that fact before and just found a quick reference:
http://www.extendfertility.com/female-fertility.htm
Therefore, I find it hard to believe the plethora of online “Teen” nudity sites really has much to do with biology….It’s my opinion seeing a teen nude is a walk on the naughty side…somewhere you’re not really supposed to go. It’s not nearly as racy or titillating to be attracted to a 25 year old woman. But, to be aroused by a girl of 16 or 17 is definitely taboo in most circles if you’re a man older than 35.
Now to be fair, I think it’s the provocative advertising words of the teen sites that grabs the lust horns of most men…..that and the girls in pig tails and knee high socks. :p I’m willing to wager most of those girls are of age anyway although oftentimes it’s hard to tell a girl of 16 apart from a girl of 19.
Generally, I wonder if the attraction is because it’s a bit of taboo mixed in with a touch of the man realizing he’s more sophisticated and older and therefore he feels less intimidated psychologically. Anyway, it’s too much for me to figure out on my own, obviously.
All that I know is most men are attracted to girls once they reach an age of looking good…and that happens to start during the teen years. As long as they keep their hands to themselves (haha), I don’t really see a problem.
October 1, 2008 at 4:46 AM
I think a large part of it also is society. We live in a society where sex is everywhere, and young girls dress in ways that 20 years ago would not have been accepted. How do you think people would have responded in 1988 in seeing a 13 year old or 14 year old wearing a midriff shirt? Sex is used to sell just about anything, even cars or fast food these days.
November 16, 2008 at 10:17 PM
hi. I’ve been looking for a blog site like this for a long time. I’m 37 years old and my boyfriend who I’m about to move in with is 35… wow just 5 minutes ago. We’ve had this well I’ve had this concern about his attraction to teen porn. The issue is that I notice him looking at young girls everywhere. The problem I feel is that the images that he continues to feed his mind cause him to continue to objectify even when he doesn’t realize he’s doing it. We have patterns of thoughts, it’s been estimated about 60,000 on an average everyday. Usually they just repeat themselves. The mind is so powerful that one finds it extremely challenging to “turn” off the mind because he or she is no longer looking at a screen. The images evoke mental, emotional and physical responses. What’s been kind of ironic reading all of these entries is that being a 37 year old woman is a hell of a lot more fulfilling than when I was any younger. Admittedly, I’m considered to be very young looking and attractive, but I wouldn’t turn those hands of time back for anything. I’m a former exotic dancer and I allowed myself to be objectified for 8 years. Men need to ask themselves what is the right thing to do. Women are fascinating creatures no matter what age.
We represent such an amazing powerful ability to bring life into this world, and even after that time is done, to bring wisdom. I guess I will have to see how my lover behaves over time. If I continue to observe this type of issue than it will be hard to live with that. People we all age and we all die. This physical construct is only one aspect of who we are. Learn to expand your consciousness and evolve yourselves so that you are not only seeing people as objects for sex. It’s time to search for more inside yourselves, not in another, whatever the persons age or aesthetic qualities.
November 16, 2008 at 11:58 PM
Hi Nette! Welcome to the blog, and thank you for a fascinating post!
The objectification of people — whether sexual, racial, or otherwise — is an age old problem, isn’t it? Unfortunately, I agree with you that objectification seems to be your boyfriend’s problem. But how much of a problem it is for him, I can’t tell.
On one extreme, the notion of bedding a cute teen could just be an idle male fantasy. I suspect most of us have fantasies we enjoy but would never act on — and that could be the case with your boyfriend.
But on the other extreme is the folly of actually believing one’s fantasies are true to life. A female equivalent would be the girl who reads romance novels and thinks the male characters in them are genuinely typical of real men. If your boyfriend is at this end of the spectrum, then he thinks the teens he looks at would be as interesting as a 37 year old woman.
In my middle years, I’ve had many teen friends. I love some of them dearly, but to my mind none of them match up to a woman in her 30s or 40s in terms of their power to be sexually fascinating. In fact, for a man my age (51) teens are pretty much sexually numbing. But that’s not because they lack beauty — it’s because they lack depth and the excitement that depth brings to intimacy.
I mention all that because — based on what you’ve said — I suspect it could be a lesson your boyfriend has not learned. Does he actually know many teens well enough for them to confide in him? For them to talk frankly with him? For him to understand them as individuals and people in their own right? I myself do. And while it often increases my love for my teenage friends, it certainly decreases my sexual desire for them.
Nette, I don’t know if I’ve made any sense to you here because I’m coming at the problem from a very difficult to explain point of view. Also, I can’t offer you much more than what I’ve already said because I’m not more familiar with your situation. But I get the impression from what you’ve said that your boyfriend’s problem is he is out of touch with the actual reality of what teens typically are because he has been dealing with them as objects onto which he can project his fantasies, rather than as individuals in their own right. Does that make any sense? Or, am I — as is usual for me — way off base?
By the way, if that is indeed his problem, then the good news is he won’t need meds to solve it — he’ll just need to get way more down to earth and realistic.
December 2, 2008 at 5:54 AM
I came across this blog entry today and found it very interesting as it relates to a situation I have found myself in recently.
Now, the main consensus during these discussions it the point of view from the older generation. I found that in life, we can see things from one point of view, but that one point of view is not the whole view. Sort of like an artists viewfinder – it zooms into one part of an image and you see only a portion, but not the whole.
I have just turned 18 years old, not that my age matters or should be a judgement on what I have to say here.
Now it seems that the main argument of why older men should not act on their desires to pursue younger women, is the fact that we have no ‘depth of feeling or thought’, and no ‘wisdom’, since only age can bring wisdom. Now, this may be the case for the majority of 16-25 year olds, but there also happens to be a rare few out there that have been through a lot in their short lives, and therefore have found an inner wisdom that most people, regardless of age/gender, yearn for their whole lives. I have found this especially true for myself, since I found nothing to relate to in this body orientated society that we live in, where perfection is sought through bodily manners. The pressures of living up to this image of temporary perfection (in my early teens 13-15) got so bad that I had to leave my place of education as the increased negativity and confusion of the youths around me became more and more overwhelming. I spent the majority of two years alone and away from society’s pressures, and in those two years managed to gain insights into myself, and learn about myself and what I was worth as a human being. It makes you think, doesn’t it, that if we placed less importance on the beauty of body, and outward perfection as a whole in society, we might see the inner beauty, true and everlasting light that we all project naturally within us, no matter how buried it is? Then we would not base our attractions to others on age or physical beauty, rather to what we see in other’s souls.
Anyway, we should not assume that age equates to wisdom because I have met ‘children’ who have such a wisdom that ‘adults’ are blind to!
I think it is very tempting in our society to place people in boxes, and stamp a label on it, basically because we do not understand at all. We judge things, we judge situations and in doing so we lose the real meaning behind things. Maybe the only way to understand certain things is to take a step back, remove all judgement and see the whole picture? There is an importance placed on beautiful bodies, and innocence, yes. But why? Maybe all of us want that purity, because purity goes beyond this world and touches that ‘divine’ part of ourselves. We all want to be loved and accepted without judgement, and we all deserve to be. The alluring fact is that the younger you are, the more pure you appear to be, even if that is not true in essence. I think it is more likely that an older person will be transformed back to their own sense of innocence through the fantasy of loving a younger girl/boy. Is there anything wrong with this? Absolutely not. But maybe people should try and go within themselves to find this, rather than through fantasies. After all, only temporary satisfaction can be found outside, only true happiness within ourselves.
Most people, young/old, man/woman just wants to be loved at the core of themselves. And in this demanding society we live in, there seems little time, and little place for this non-judgemental type love. If we stepped out of the little roles we act in this giant play, we would see that we are all one and the same. How can you not love someone who is the same as yourself? Everyone is struggling to find this fact, that is right before their eyes.
I happen to be in a relationship with a much, much older man. Did I ever fantasise being in a relationship with an older man ? Not at all. Do I judge him, love him for his age? No. I have my own wisdom, he has his, and we love each other for who we are. Love goes beyond these boundaries, and if society saw this, then we’d live in a much more beautiful, accepting world.
It seems the issue here isn’t really about older men looking at younger women. It’s about how we define ourselves through societies eyes, and how judgements and boundaries create division and not togetherness.
Regards,
Em.
December 2, 2008 at 10:45 AM
@ Em – “Anyway, we should not assume that age equates to wisdom ”
Nor should we assume that intelligence equates to wisdom either. Completely separate qualities (recent government provides a prime example of this). Often, one can be very intelligent, yet quite foolish.
A rarer scenario, one can also have limited intelligence, but a profound wisdom.
That’s one thing that Dungeons & Dragons’ character system got right.
- M. \”/
December 2, 2008 at 10:50 AM
‘one can also have limited intelligence, but a profound wisdom.’
Maybe this is because at it’s core, wisdom is simple logic. Intelligence seeks to reason, where wisdom would simply accept.
Are we not as foolish as our leaders for selecting them to lead us?
December 2, 2008 at 1:37 PM
I have no problem with my husband looking at porn (I do it too), or beautiful young women and models (as long as he’s not doing it in front of me). What bothers me is the teen porn and underage stuff.
I find that the older I get, the younger the men I find attractive. To me, men are aesthetically most pleasing in their early twenties, and I love their relative innocence and playfulness, although I’d never want to date one. When I do catch myself finding a, say, 17 year old boy attractive, he still looks like a young man. If he hasn’t has lost that boyish puppy-ness, I’m not attracted.
I think a lot of it has to do with social expectations, like Scott suggested. Women are expected to be innocent, men experienced. It’s not so much biology that makes women go for older men- men’s fertility begins to drop in their mid twenties, sooner than for women. And yes, for women the drop is more dramatic, but recent studies all suggest that the older the man, the longer it takes to make a woman pregnant, and the risk of having unhealthy children increases significantly the older a man gets.
Since men are the ones who have access to status and wealth, it benefits women to seek out those men, and it usually takes years to reach a certain level of status, therefore they’re older. The more equal a society is (between the sexes), the smaller the desired age gap. I should know- I grew up in Scandinavia, which is much more equal than the US, and I noticed as soon as I moved here how much more obsessed Americans are with age.
Anyway-I agree with Andrea, I too think it’s not so much about attractiveness and smooth skin and nice bodies- a woman in her early twenties has all of that! But rather the age it self that is attractive to these men. Maybe it is the taboo-thing. The girls in some of the pics my husband has are not even naked or pornographic in any way, or even attractive, still he uses the pics in a sexual way because of their young faces.
OK, back to me. How can I deal with my husband’s obsession with young teens? It’s partly about my insecurities- I’m 29 (he’s 31), a model, I look young, I have a great body, we have great sex everyday (seriously!), he tells me all the time how attracted he is to me. And yet he makes me feel old! But more so than my insecurity issues (because I can work on them), it’s about this gut feeling of disgust and fear that he objectifies underage girls… I remember when I was a teenager, and how attention from older men would creep me out. Can any one suggest a way to deal with it? How should I think about this? I fear that talking to him about it too much will only make it more exciting for him. Do I really need to suck it up when it makes me so miserable, and has begun to change how I see him? Can I get over it?
December 2, 2008 at 3:39 PM
Hey, I should add that the girls he looks at look underage, not that they are.
December 2, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Em: “Are we not as foolish as our leaders for selecting them to lead us?”
Who said we selected them? More often than not, I’ve taken a good look at the options available and cast my vote for the one who scares me least.
But not voting at all would be the nadir of foolishness.
- M. \”/
December 3, 2008 at 5:55 AM
Hi Em! Thank you such well written and valuable comments! And welcome to the blog!
I pretty much find myself in agreement with most of your insights — especially with your point that there are exceptions to almost every generalization. I would like to point out, however, that anyone as wise as you appear to be at 18 is most likely going to become even wiser later on in life. There are people who are still fools at 70, but I get the sense you yourself will never be a complete fool at any age.
As for your relationship with a much older man, I think it’s wonderful you’ve had the courage and good sense to allow yourself to love him despite societal expectations. That speaks volumes about you. Love and mutual respect are by far the most important things.
December 3, 2008 at 6:19 AM
Hi Lola!
If you don’t mind considering the advice of a certified idiot (myself), then let me recommend two options for you.
First, you might consider that most people have fantasies they would never, in a million lifetimes, wish to come true for them. I have read from numerous sources that polls consistently show the number one female sexual fantasy in America is to be raped. But how many women would want their favorite fantasy of being raped to actually come true. Probably about 7 individuals out of the millions of women who share the fantasy. So, while your husband might fantasize about underage girls, it seems to me most likely that he would not want to ever pursue his fantasies. So, you might first consider that aspect of the issue before you pursue any other option.
But, Lola, if you are still not reconciled to his fantasizing about underage girls then I would give serious thought to discussing your feelings with a skilled therapist. A good, skilled therapist — such as the one I myself go to — can do wonders to help you find ways of resolving issues. That’s because you have only dealt with the issue once in your life, but he or she has probably encountered it or something similar dozens of times and knows what works and what doesn’t.
Last, I urge you not to write off your feelings as insignificant. No offense intended here, but you women are always sacrificing your feelings because you think they are less important than everyone else’s, or because you think it’s your job as a woman to put your own feelings on the shelf. That’s utter nonsense. This issue is quite important to you and it could have profound effects on your relationship and self-image unless you take yourself seriously and resolve it. So whatever else you do, don’t “suck it up”!
Oh. One more thing. At 29, I could not imagine how much happier I would be at 40 and 50. I doubt you can either. So, quit worrying too much about getting old. You have a few pleasant surprises in store you for, methinks.
December 3, 2008 at 7:57 AM
“quit worrying too much about getting old. You have a few pleasant surprises in store you for, methinks.”
Hear, hear.
- M. \”/
December 4, 2008 at 8:18 AM
Paul,
thank you for your time and advice, nothing idiotic about your reply at all!:)
And now, to exhaust this subject further… The funny thing is, I’m not at all worried that my husband would want to live out any fantasies. It is just the mere fact that the girls are so young that creeps me out. He says he likes to look at young girls (who look like they could be 13-14-15 years old) because they are pretty, and that he doesn’t find them sexually arousing. The pics he has are non-pornographic, the girls are fully dressed. And it still creeps me out to no end, even though I know he is completely harmless, and that it’s not something he is obsessed about. What, if it isn’t sex, could this be about? Is it normal? If he were a gay man looking at young teenage boys, would that have been considered to be the same thing (just pretty faces, nothing sexual)? And why, if I know it’s harmless, do I get so upset? I guess I just don’t understand what it is about. Sure, young boys can be very pretty too, but I wouldn’t bother saving pics of them.
Hm, yeah, seems like I really need to see a therapist to sort this out.
December 4, 2008 at 11:09 AM
@ Lola: “He says he likes to look at young girls (who look like they could be 13-14-15 years old) because they are pretty, and that he doesn’t find them sexually arousing. … What, if it isn’t sex, could this be about?”
Aesthetics. I like to look at pictures of cats (or, for that matter, real cats). That’s not about sex. Some people like to look at other species, or beautiful landscapes, or flowers.
Appreciate beauty wherever your eye beholds it.
- M. \”/
December 6, 2008 at 8:59 AM
@ Lola: A good therapist should at least help you work through your options and perhaps show you ways of dealing with the situation that haven’t occurred to either of us. Good luck! And feel free to let me know how things go.
January 7, 2009 at 4:47 PM
i have a question:
so do men feel more sexually attracted to teens than they do to women in there 20’s?
regardless of maturity….
January 7, 2009 at 4:58 PM
@ Dan: I think it very much depends on the people involved, although I have read the opinion of one sex therapist who stated that most of her clients considered women in their twenties much more sexually attractive than teenagers.
January 8, 2009 at 2:39 PM
thank you so much for answering my question so quickly!
I’ve been looking for a website like this for about a year because it’s not always easy to talk about this subject with people you know.
I ‘ve asked a few men if they feel sexually attracted by young teens (13,14,15,16) and they’ve all denied it…But i’m not sure if i should believe that being that many 12 year old girls look like they’re at least 16…scary!
I’m starting to think that maybe it’s normal for older guys to think 16 year olds are sexy , but anything younger than that really bothers me,I can’t get used to the idea , it’s repulsive. I’ve read that a man (or woman )is considered a pedophile if they are sexually attracted to girls/boys of 12 and under.
i also agree with Melanie, i’m a 22 year old woman and in my opinion I’m pretty open minded to new ideas, but the ” teen sex topic” has bothered me for quiet some time for the fact that grown men are the one seeking it. And as Melanie wrote , are we supposed be competing with the 16 year old or even the younger ones?That’s so absurd to me.I can’t and don’t want to believe it.But if that’s the reality of things, that young teens are more sexually attractive than women in there 20’s than MEN: GIVE ME SOME HONEST ANSWERS.
i also want to add that for 11 years i lived in Europe and one thing that I’ve noticed about teens over there and American teens is that too many of them look much older here in the states, at least 2/3 years older than European teens, at least!i wonder if it’s all the hormones that dairy and meet contains…I don’t know.
@LOLA: 13, 14? Maybe 15 is a little more bearable, but i could never look at my boyfriend the same way i used too. That would creep me out too…especially if they actually look like they are THAT young . And i wouldn’t compare it to things ( like cats or flowers )like Meowlin wrote.
January 8, 2009 at 6:49 PM
@ Dan: If a 22 year old man’s more attracted to a 16 year old than to a 22 year old, how confident and mature do you suppose that man might be?
January 8, 2009 at 9:11 PM
I don’t know, i don’t even know if it has to do with the guy’s maturity level….If he’d be attracted by the 16 year old’s personality I would consider him just as immature as the teenager.but if we are Only talking about physical attraction and nothing more?i don’t think it’s as strange for a man in his early 20’s to feel more sexually attracted towards girls that are a little younger than him (a little), same for women. i myself tend to feel more attracted to men that are older than me.
i don’t know….I’m just trying to get some answers on this so I can either accept it or relax, hopefully both =]
January 9, 2009 at 1:49 PM
Dan, I really think it depends on the man. Some men are one way, and some another. Just as you might have a preference for whether a man has one kind of looks or another kind of looks, you might also discover that you have a preference for whether a man prefers teens or not. Does that make any sense?
January 14, 2009 at 10:55 PM
It does make sense for a man to be attracted to a certain look or type, just as long as it is understood that there is a huge difference between fantasy and reality. It is OK to fantasize about the 16 year old babysitter, but it’s another thing entirely to attempt to actually do anything. One thing I don’t understand is the assumption that teenage girls actually WANT to have sex with men in their 40s or 50s. If men are not attracted to older women, what makes anyone think a young girl would be attracted to a fat balding middle aged man?
February 2, 2009 at 3:39 AM
I think that everyone has different ideals relating to sexual partners and you will get different opinions from each person as to wether teens are attractive.Statistical analysis will show that by and large men are not more attracted to teens.Having said that,some men develop abnormally and for reasons that will never be understood become fixated by people outside of their age bracket.I am one example.Being a man who has no sexual interest in anyone other than adolescent boys or young men(perhaps early twenties)I can say that it is just unfortunate that some people turn out this way.The nature of their sexual orientation can never be changed,and despite popular opinion they are only rarely driven by power or conrol,and only rare individuals would ever coerce a younger person into sex.Another teen is far more likely to coerce a young person into sex than any “paedophile”.Also I think the value of maturity and intelligent conversation are vastly overrated.Consider a mans best friend,the dog.They dont even share a language at all and are on completely different intellectual planes yet many humans would find them better companions than another person of equal intellect.Likewise why would a person need an intellectual equal to enjoy sex,an activity that rarely involves conversation?Affection and sexual attraction to me dont rely on conversation with a mature peer.
February 2, 2009 at 8:06 AM
Dan: “Also I think the value of maturity and intelligent conversation are vastly overrated.Consider a mans best friend,the dog.They dont even share a language at all and are on completely different intellectual planes yet many humans would find them better companions than another person of equal intellect.”
I guess your mileage may vary, but I don’t go out of my way to read dogs’ blogs all that much.
As for face-to-face companion ship… I haven’t lived with a dog in several decades, but my cats have always communicated their feelings and opinions quite clearly. Some of them have even learned to speak a little English.
- M. \”/
February 8, 2009 at 2:06 PM
It is kind of devastating,, I am my 40’s still looking good for may age,, but my 50’s year old boyfriend doesn’t care about having sex with me, in fact in a year probably had sex 5 times, he keeps saying he is tired wrong time, but I found he was watching nude sites some from teen girls, and I am sure he masturbate while watching them, is just sad, and I feel old and worthless.
February 9, 2009 at 4:06 AM
Hi Rose! Welcome to the blog! Frankly, I find it dysfunctional that a 50 year old man would be more interested in fantasizing about teenagers than in enjoying sex with a woman near his age. I think he might find it beneficial to see a psychiatrist or therapist. If he is reluctant to see one, then I urge you yourself to go alone. A good professional might give you some insights into how to deal with your boyfriend’s problem.
February 9, 2009 at 8:03 AM
@ Rose: “I am my 40’s still looking good for may age,, but my 50’s year old boyfriend doesn’t care about having sex with me”
Tell him I’d be more than willing to sub for him… and I don’t doubt there are many others.
- M. \”/
February 11, 2009 at 11:42 AM
ok there are two “dan” in here.
I am dan (the girl)
lol to Meowlin!~
February 12, 2009 at 12:48 PM
After reading all this I feel I should express somethings as this topic hits home with me. Almost a year ago I caught my husband bugged eyed and dry mouth as I entered his office one night at our home. I can’t explain how but I knew he was up to something. After playing detective the next day I uncovered some very disturbing secrets about my husband, he had been looking at websites that hosted pornagraphic pictures /videos of teenage girls. Although the websites state that the girls are 18 and 19 it was obvious some were as young as 15. My biggest shock and concern was that I never knew that he was interested in teenage girls and the fact that we have 2 teenage daughters. Did they or there friends play apart in a sick fantasy for him? These thoughts sickenend me to think of. I have been able to put this behind me, it has taken months of hard work on my husbands part and mine. But to this day I still have insecurities because I guess I will never really know everything.
February 13, 2009 at 11:17 AM
“Although the websites state that the girls are 18 and 19 it was obvious some were as young as 15.”
I’m interested in hearing how you reached that conclusion without having any off-line contact with the models.
- M. \”?
February 14, 2009 at 5:26 AM
And thats the very comment my husband made to me. I guess I really don’t know how old these girls are. But I can tell you the concensus on the forum is if the girl looks to be in here early 20’s they want her off. The people at the website want Teens
February 14, 2009 at 2:20 PM
lisa: “the concensus on the forum is if the girl looks to be in here early 20’s they want her off. The people at the website want Teens”
I’ll take you at your word on that. Doesn’t sound like the kind of place I’d be interested in – not the pictures, nor the people using it.
- M. \”/
February 15, 2009 at 11:21 AM
@ lisa — But another person I take at his word – Eolake Stobblehouse. There are a few models at Domai who I’d be skeptical of whether they’re 18 or above – except that they’re on Domai, and I trust Eolake when he says they are.
Sometimes people (male or female) just retain the illusion of extreme youth for a bit longer than most of us do. Maybe a skilled make up artist has an effect in some cases too.
- M. \”/
February 16, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Well I understand what your saying, I guess my concern is what this says to young women. At such a young age these girls are allowing themselves to be objectified without really knowing what other qualities they have to offer. I think by the time most young women reach early 20’s they have a better since of who they are and at that point in life if they choose to get naked in front of the camera more power to them. I think as adults WE, men and women both should emphasize more on self worth, education, and healthy outlets for our girls in there adolescent and teenage years. Like I told my husband, “Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.”
February 17, 2009 at 9:30 AM
“Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.”
Yeah, I definitely heard that.
- M. \”/
February 18, 2009 at 1:34 PM
Thank you Meowlin for giving me your insights on this subject. As you know this is a subject that concerns many people especially people like myself that have been hurt and left confused. This has been somewhat theraputic for me. Although I’ve read alot about this subject and it has been helpful, up to this point I hadn’t spoken of this to anyone. I think I have a lot more to say about adults looking at teen porn, but the bottom line is I can’t and won’t ever except it as normal behavior. Thanks again for communicating your thoughts to me, just writting my own thoughts down has been good for me.
Lisa
February 19, 2009 at 10:38 AM
“looking at teen porn, but the bottom line is I can’t and won’t ever except it as normal behavior.”
I do tend to think it’s (more or less) normal. But there’s a big difference between “normal”… and “good” or “constructive” or any other positive adjective you might be able to think of.
In the immortal words of the prophet Mr. Spock (the pointy-eared Spock; not to be confused with Dr. Spock), “I said I understand. That doesn’t mean I approve.”
- M. \”/
February 26, 2009 at 1:23 AM
Wow old men think its OK to be dirty and also think young girls will be attracted to there old wrinkled faces and saggy testicles? That’s narcissism at the fullest. I understand men are lower in empathy than females but to say females biologically want men older and men want soft young teens because of the superficial benefits. In the world of narcissism it’s a mans world i am officially going gay as of now
February 26, 2009 at 1:59 AM
Hi Susie! Welcome to the blog! Could you reference where someone has argued that all young teens want old men as lovers? Or where someone has argued that all old men want young teens as lovers? I don’t recall those passages?
February 26, 2009 at 7:11 AM
Hi Paul
Sorry I didn’t mean to be so harsh. I think men who indulge in internet pornography are being brainwashed since it practically shoves teens down their throat. A man has nowhere else to turn. If a man doesn’t start out liking teen girls if he most likely will be brainwashed. The over 30 sites typically don’t seem to feature really good looking females. Most beautiful women over 30 have a full life and wouldn’t pose for pornography on the Internet. It seems that men get the opinion that grown women don’t look good. I wish I could show you my bombshell beautiful friends over 30. By the way, they would never show their vagina for everyone on the Internet to see
February 26, 2009 at 11:58 AM
@ susie: please clarify – what are your parameters for “pornography”? (”The difference between pornography and erotica? Lighting.” – Gloria Leonard)
“A man has nowhere else to turn. … The over 30 sites typically don’t seem to feature really good looking females.”
They – or you – aren’t looking hard enough (pun not intended, but noted). Check my entry of Feb. 15th in this thread for just one example. (He doesn’t post over-30 women *exclusively*, but he does fairly often.) And, from there, links to others.
“I wish I could show you my bombshell beautiful friends over 30.”
I’d love to see them. Were it possible, I’d love to meet them.
“By the way, they would never show their vagina for everyone on the Internet to see”
I wouldn’t expect to see vaginas except maybe on gynecological websites. Labia, on the other hand… those are more widely (another unintentional pun) available.
“to say females biologically want men older ”
No – biologically, females want men better able, in the long run, to provide care and security for them and any resulting offspring. The Jonas Brothers are very lusted-after by young females right now, and perceived as “cute” – but they’d be considerably less “cute” if they weren’t raking in the bucks at this time. Not reduced to zero-cute, but significantly less.
“and men want soft young teens because of the superficial benefits.”
Which benefits are you calling “superficial”? Males (of any age) are biologically “hardwired” to be attracted to mates on the basis of the appearance of health and fertility. But some of us manage to override that “hardwiring”, to some extent or another. You’re painting us all with a pretty broad brush, here.
- M. \”/
March 3, 2009 at 7:26 AM
The funniest thing just struck me after reading views about teen pregnancy, Blog- How Texas helps Teen Pregnancy. Its really left me baffled about how ignorant we adults really are. We look at pretty young things on the internet hoping that by law they are at least 18, although knowing thats not always the case. But feel that it OK because we’re not breaking in laws, after all the website discloses that all teens are in fact 18 and over. Well now I feel better, not a dirty perv, chics 18 possible 19 now I have no problem here,they are of age . I mean isn’t this what we are saying, whether we looking at beautiful “models” not performing sexually acts or teens that are doing it all. Well now this brings me around to how in the hell do we split the two? One minute yourlooking at a pretty young thing and you feel ok about it after all she is of age. But then these are our young ladies that we are talking about our young girls that end up pregnant and we then feel, “oh my, young girls pregnant” what will they do? So young, life just getting started, why we as society has failed them, they should have had better parenting. OH COME ON! We have them all grown up one minute and back down to babies the next! What do we do?? Better yet what do they do? If we are telling are teens by watching them undress in front of the camera, engage in sex, taking part in whatever will get the attention of the viewer, that we except, as adults what they are doing. But lets say the girl becomes pregnant, does she still model, does she still post herself having sex? I’m doubtful, because at this point while there may be some that don’t most will be calling up mom and dad, better yet probally just going downstairs to the kitchen, letting mom and dad know she knocked up, boy friend doesn’t have a job, boyfriend really isn’t a boyfriend just a friend and well, mom and dadnyour little girl need help now she’s a baby again. Two nights ago before she knew she was pregnant she was upstairs in her room posting pictures of herself for all the world to see.
March 3, 2009 at 10:43 AM
lisa: “But lets say the girl becomes pregnant, does she still model, does she still post herself having sex? I’m doubtful, ”
Nadia Suleiman (spelling may not be accurate there), the “OctoMom,” just got offered a porn contract. At last report, she is considering accepting it.
- M. \”/
March 3, 2009 at 12:17 PM
Hey y’all..Just on a personal note.My husband told me he found me more beautiful and sexually attractive as a mature woman as compared to when I was a teenager.And we met when I was 14 and he was 16 so we were “age appropriate” then and our now.He told me this without prompting ..and I was in my 30’s when he said it.Thats how he feels about me.
As to other women(or girls) that are younger.Im sure he cant help but notice these girls beauty.Heck ..I notice there beauty.But I dotn think he daydreams or has fantasises about having sex with them.Or that he woudl want to if he could at his age.(43)..In fact I have asked him before if we werent together woudl he go after a 20 year old? He said absolutley not.I’ve already been through that and woudnt want to have to again! LOL!!!
Love
Dallas
March 3, 2009 at 2:51 PM
check this copy and paste
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article5295125.ece
March 3, 2009 at 2:53 PM
I think men who indulge in Internet pornography are being brainwashed since it practically shoves teens down their throat. A man has nowhere else to turn. If a man does not start out liking teen girls if he most likely will be brainwashed.
“I SAID MOST MEN I DID NOT SAY ALL”
The over “30 + years old sites” typically do not seem to feature good-looking females, and a lot of the women are 65 -70 years old.
“There are always occasional exceptions”. Most beautiful women over 30 have a full life and would not pose for internet pornography.
“I said most! This could change but as of now the proof is there It is disproportionate young little teens just look at the internet. .(I was shy about my showing my vagina when I was a young girl)Anyways times have changed quickly.
Why do these girls do porn, well? Imagine someone’s husband or fiancé masturbating to the teen, all that male attention to a teen makes them feel beautiful even though they will be discarded by a new girls picture after a few orgasms” This is why SOME young teens do pornography. Women as a rule we have more sense and are less attention seeking as a rule compared to when we are a 17 or 18 yr old girl… .
Many people will want to bury their head in the sand and will disagree with me because an illusion is easier than a harsh fact. The proof is their just check Internet porn!
And this is depressing stuff so I expect a swarm of bloggers in disagreement. I wont check back good luck and my love to all as we are all brothers and sisters and trying to enjoy life in this big world
March 3, 2009 at 3:26 PM
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/04/13/NUDEPIC.ART_ART_04-13-08_A1_7G9TMIF.html
March 4, 2009 at 10:37 AM
““I SAID MOST MEN I DID NOT SAY ALL””
No, you didn’t
“I think men who indulge in internet pornography are being brainwashed ”
I don’t see the word “most” in that statement.
- M. ò”ô
March 14, 2009 at 3:48 PM
i believe some of the comments made on this website are extremely patronising and belittling towards teenage girls. Im 15 years old, and i realise that I am not an adult emotionally, but i do not think emotionally i am the same as a child. to be put in the same category as a girl aged 12,11,10,9,8 or even younger is insultive to me, and to be honest im sick of being referred to as a “silly naive young girl”. I am in no way naive, and i am not silly either. I am completely aware of the consequences of certain situations in life, such as a teenage girl dating an older man (im not talkin 1 or 2 years older, im talking 5 or more). I think you would have to be very naive to believe at 15, dating a 40 year old that claims he “loves you” really does love you. If a 40 year old man did want to date a 15 year old girl, his motives are obviously going to be dark. However, it is not always the older men who take advantage of young girls. Some of my friends have lied about their age and chased after guys alot older than them, with these older guys not realising their real age. As for teenage girls still having a “childlike” look about them, i don’t think that makes sense at all. I have often been mistaken for 19 or older, and many of my friends have aswell. However, i dont take advantage of that fact. Another thing that I found insulting is the stereotype of teenage girls being thrown on every girl under the age of 18. We are not all silly, giggly girls who only talk about boys they like and the way they look, and we don’t all go round in tiny miniskirts and tight tank tops! Sure, there are some girls like that, but not all! I think of myself as a young woman, not a child but not an adult. I don’t have the experience as a 30 year old woman has, but that doesn’t mean im a child, so don’t treat me like one! I am very secure with myself, and I like to think of myself as mature. Getting back onto the subject, i think men are very deluded if they watch teen porn and really believe teenage girls have tight bodies and perfect complexions haha!
March 16, 2009 at 3:41 AM
Thank you for your comments, Kaitlin.
April 18, 2009 at 3:09 PM
Hi I dont know if this site is still open but you all seem like level headed seeming people and I was hoping for some advice. I am a male 26 year old and I look at pictures of teens on the web and masterbate over them, I dont go searching for them in particular but they just seem to be everywhere. I dont have any particular fantasies about them.I prefer full figured women with curves in all the right places
I´m engaged to be married to a very beautiful 27 year old woman. The sex is fantastic and I find her to be perfection personified. The point of this is that the other month my woman discovered my habit and wasn´t best pleased. She had doubts about the relationship, she was worried about my feelings for her and even about the age girls seemed that I masterbated over.
I have tried to convince her that there is no deeper meaning and really there isnt but still she has some doubts about our relationship. She is jealous now without reason about women I work with and even somtime glance at as we walk in the street. She has insecurities now that she didn´t have when we started together, I dont know if there is a link but I wonder often if porn is the cause. I feel so bad about it all it tears me up inside.
The point of all of this is to ask for advice, What can I do to help fix this problem? I love my woman and I only want her happyness what can I do or say to clear these doubts?
Porn is a desease it is too readily available and it eats away at relationships. It has no perpose except to create false images in the minds of both men and women and most certainly to make money. Momentary plesures at what cost? Porn puts fake ideals in the minds of young men and women alike, edited photos creating a type of perfection that is unattainable. Porn isn´t the only medium, these insecurities are pushed on us constantly, we see them every day on magazine covers and advertisements on TV and fashion postings. A never ending stream of images are bombarding our impressionable youth, but also older people are open to this too.
My email address is filled every few weeks with more and more adverts for viagra and “man hood” enlarging technologies.Womens magazines push the latest in makeups scafolding Bras.. bah My rant is escaping me, also I apologise for any bad spelling.
Please offer me some advice even if it is bad another point of view would be welcome. Thanks for your time if anyone is still here.
April 18, 2009 at 7:13 PM
Hi Mr. Tibs! Welcome to the blog! I’m afraid I’m at a loss what advice to offer you in dealing with your fiancées’ new anxieties. I don’t think she actually has any reason to be anxious because you seem like a level headed person who would not put pornography before her in your priorities. The only thing I can think of is the two of you seek out joint counseling. Perhaps with a therapist acting as a disinterested third party, the two of you can work out the issues here. Sorry I couldn’t give better advice.
April 19, 2009 at 1:32 PM
Mr. Tibs: “Porn is a desease it is too readily available and it eats away at relationships. It has no perpose except to create false images in the minds of both men and women and most certainly to make money.”
First of all, porn is not a disease. It’s a commodity. Obsession with porn is.. well, like obsession with cats or guns or shoes or any other commodity; it’s the obsessor’s fault, not the commodity’s.
“Porn puts fake ideals in the minds of young men and women alike, edited photos creating a type of perfection that is unattainable.”
I don’t know about you, but, since porn or photo-erotica has only the visual sense to work on (maybe hearing in the case of movies/video) – it can’t stimulate your sense of touch, or cuddle you afterward, or discuss philosophy or movies or art with you – it has to appeal to the visual a heck of a lot more intensely than an actual woman would. Again, I don’t know about you, but (though I’ll settle for porn during times when it’s all that’s available) a woman would have to be rather extremely unappealing for me to choose porn over her. (Then again, an actual woman would have a lot more ways than the purely visual to be *un*appealing too. But since you’re engaged to the woman in question here, I’m guessing that’s not a problem in your situation.)
So – unless your fiancée attempts to initiate intimacy and you’ve been telling her, “No thanks – I’d rather masturbate to pictures of the Olson Twins tonight,” I don’t think either of you has anything to worry about.
“I´m engaged to be married to a very beautiful 27 year old woman. The sex is fantastic and I find her to be perfection personified.”
So… do you have a camera? Would she be comfortable posing nude just for you, for the purpose of stimulating your masturbatory pleasure, during those times when you can’t be together?
And how would you feel about doing the same for her?
- M. \”/
April 19, 2009 at 6:13 PM
I have an honest question here, is masterbation always performed when watching online porn?
April 20, 2009 at 2:52 PM
Neither activity necessitates the other.
– M. \”/
April 29, 2009 at 2:12 PM
When are we going to stop excusing weak-minded men on the basis that that’s how they are genetically programmed? They also have the ability to use their higher level thinking function – remember it’s the thing that differentiates humans (well some) from the animals. On the basis of the genes and reproduction argument we should still be excusing incest and the use of child prostitutes.
Personally I am of the view that these men are looking at porographic pictures of teen-age girls because they are teen-age boys in men’s bodies. And the law is the only reason they don’t reach out and touch.
May 1, 2009 at 4:19 PM
@ Melanie – I can understand your insecurities, but well – life isn’t always fair on everyone. It isn’t just men who are to be blamed for being shallow about looks when it comes to getting sexually attracted to someone. I wish at 5 3′ I were as attractive to adult women as are the 5 10′ + feet guys. However, they are just wishes. I haven’t had much success in dating women in my age range, because they couldn’t look past my height. So instead of being in stuck in a (long) waiting game that could take me into my 30s (or perhaps death), I’ve decided to make most of what I have now – my good looks and below average height. I find that a lot of teenage girls in the 15-19 age range show sexual interest in me, so I’ve decided to go for them instead. I’d prefer the mature looking ones though, since childish looking ones make me feel brotherly and asexual. I’ve found teenage girls less shallow, less of golddiggers, more adventurous, experimental, attractive and easygoing then the (few) women in their 20s that I’ve had to deal with.
Perhaps given the chance, I’d have gone for a woman my age who I find attractive and who in turn is as attracted to me. However, as of now I would NOT wait and give up my opportunities just for some woman to notice me once she is well into her 30s, had all the fun of her youth and is looking for a ‘dependable’ man to ’settle down’ (as she is past the age where her looks could have got her ‘everything’). As for society, I couldn’t care less about what they think of me, as they couldn’t care enough to help me deal with my situation.
As for those who consider teenagers as kids, this is more of a social construct than reality. A little review of past history and good ol’ human biology can sort this out, rather than politically correct ‘researches’ and ’studies’ done to keep the masses happy. In the end of the day, emotional maturity isn’t a function of age, but of experience. A random 15-year old *could* have as much or more maturity and resilience of spirit than a random 30-year old.
@ Michael – I have been through the same situation as yours, albeit in a different part of the world. I lived with strictly religious parents, who totally closed down my normal teenage impulses in order to ‘protect’ me (parties, athletics, dates, etc). Because of this, I was often very lonely and found solace reading voraciously (which *did* help my academics but didn’t help my physical/social well being). On to university, I ended up being the guy with a social disconnect from students my age. My height didn’t help either, especially in the dating arena. To cope up with the misery (again), I buried myself into academics and patient care (as a medical student). While it made me a qualified doctor, it repelled me so much that I didn’t get around to being a practicing doctor. I ended up in a profession in a completely different field. While my social life improved, there are some aspects that can’t get over my ’skipped’ teenage and early twenties. And yeah, I’ve made alcohol my bedtime friend too, perhaps drugs if things don’t go well soon.
Coming back to the topic, perhaps a man’s attraction to teenage girls later in life could partly be attributed to a lack of successful sexual relationships during their own teenage years (for whatever reasons). Plenty of room for some original research here…
May 6, 2009 at 4:13 AM
To Juan -only an aging man who is very insecure about his looks would say such cruel things about woman just because she’s over 30. !!
People who are bitter towards the aging are always insecure about getting old themselves. And those are the people who age the worst-(karma catches up with you)Some people are like peter pan and will not grow up mentally, even though the body will be definitely aging. People who are attracted to young girls might want to lay off Internet porn since it overwhelming features young teen girls. Pedophiles who started with internet porn should get a law suit going against the pornographers, for the pedophile trend they have started, that very well may have influenced the men and landed them in prison.
May 6, 2009 at 4:42 AM
By the way My boyfriend is 5′4 I am 5′6. I am really attracted to his height. I know about superficial lady’s. I drop my superficial girlfriends like a hot rock. There are exceptions but You have to look hard to find one. Many women are narcissistic like many men are. Eventually you will find a good one when you least expect it. I find women to be less ego centric than school girls. It’s all about popularity with teens, as that’s an egocentric age.. I remember how my teen friends judged guys so harshly when it came to sex. If an older guy would hit on them they would just show off and giggle by call him an old man to each other. It was really mean if you ask me. Adult women usually are more tactful and considerate. ( I say usually).
May 6, 2009 at 7:04 AM
@ Sue:
Well Ms. Sue, I call a spade for what it is, at least in the internet. You can’t really expect me to subscribe to your Americanised ideals of political correctness and faked niceties. Now, lets get to the point.
At 25 years of age, I wish I aged my age to LOOK 25. Apart from the height, my boyish looks is another thing I have to deal with, since my college days. You are off by a wide margin.
I am NOT a woman. I have no insecurity in getting old myself. I’d LIKE to look my age, rather than looking years too young. For men, looking too young come at a disadvantage in professions like the one I am qualified for.
I don’t watch internet porn (or porn of any sort) anyway, so thats once again, a wild jumping into conclusions.
Ha ha. Thanks for this wonderful idea, but no thanks. I have heard this one too many times and too long, believing in it, hoping and expectant that someone ‘will come along when I least expect it’, if I ‘looked hard’ enough. All it helped was make me a 25-year-old virgin, who turned to alcohol, books and gothic music for bedtime company.
Things got better after I got real and understood that womanspeak like this are just to keep ‘useful’ guys waiting. In any case, if I’d have had to wait so long for a woman till I ‘least expect it’, it would have been way too late…
In my situation, the exact opposite. I’ve had teenage girls hit on me and flirt with me first. At present, I’m dating a pretty 17 year old girl, who is a lot more straightforward, a lot less judgemental and jaded than the women my age. In contrast to teenage girls who see me as ‘interesting and cool’, women my age consider me not more than a ‘little brother’.
And yeah, I’ve also noticed that teenage girls are not as apt to jump into such wild conclusions about someone’s personal characteristics as you are…that makes ‘the wait’ not worth at all.
Thats the point. Teenage girls are a lot more straightforward and honest than adult women. Being ‘tactful and considerate’ for the sake of niceties is more cruel than stating things in-your-face (even if it hurts the said person for the moment). The latter makes one get their perspectives right and a chance to review their option, while the former gives them a false hope, keeping them running in circles.
May 6, 2009 at 7:14 AM
My boyfriend said women didn’t like his height either. He was surprised when he met me and I liked his height. He was also a virgin when I met him. We are now engaged and love each other. If you are happy with teenagers. By all means indulge yourself with teens.
May 6, 2009 at 11:24 AM
@ Sue
Chances are, your boyfriend is over 30 years of age (till which he remained a virgin). Chances are, you were too when you dated him. Also, chances are, you’d already experienced a number of relationships before you dated him.
And yes, I am happy with teenagers. A lot happier than having to be miserably single, frustrated and dependant on alcohol. Lots more happier than I could be, if I were to keep waiting for another 5 years and …
May 8, 2009 at 9:26 AM
Yes we are both over 30. He was surprised when he found out that I thought his virginity was really nice.
When I was younger I would have thought it was strange. I learn alot in my years on this earth and I think his height and virginity are great. It’s sad when people don’t realize that you are special and unique. I saw it in him and I’m glad I did. He asked me to marry me and gave me a ring. I very happy with my “good guy”. He said he had to go threw alot of rejection and some really bad girlfriends (he never slept with them). But we found each other and were not letting go. He’s available to lend an hear If you ever desire.
May 8, 2009 at 11:45 PM
I just came across a teen nudes website my 49 year old boyfriend was looking at. Porn I don’t mind, but I have a ten year old daughter and he has a 19 year old daughter. He is also an elementary school teacher up to grade 8. Having been with him 2.5 years, finding this site on his i-touch (accidentally) makes me want to run for the hills. I am 40, look very young for my age and now feel wierded out by this discovery. I don’t think I can stay with him and feel secure in anyway
May 9, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Well, thats just as I guessed. In general, I’ve noticed that it is past their 30s that ‘nice guys’ or guys with a height ‘problems’ find mates. And usually with the same women who’d have outright rejected/overlooked them when in their twenties. It appears that once women reach their thirties, their biological stock starts ticking away and there is a rush to find a committed mate, settle down and have kids. And it is this period that women start to notice the same guys they overlooked earlier, and start to notice the good things about them that they ignored earlier. These guys after having been deprived for over one and a half decade, are quite ready for forget their past rejections and happy to oblige. Thats the general trend.
In the course of dealing with patients during my resident years, I’ve learnt so much from their lives (and deaths) that I know I’m not going to let whats left of my life to fritter away just to be a part of some sad Darwinian game. Especially when I have it in my power today to turn this game in my favour.
I will not become one of those ‘men of convienience’ for women who I know would have rejected me at present. I am not going to wait till I’m well into my thirties – to find love, companionship and sex. Also, I will NOT settle for ‘used goods’, if I’m ‘unused’ myself. Above all, I am not going to settle for *any* woman just because ’she’ll have me’.
I thank your boyfriend for his offer of lending an ear, but I believe time is already past when it would have been helpful.
May 10, 2009 at 12:12 PM
Wow Thats cruel. I was trying to be nice. Good luck to you
May 10, 2009 at 12:38 PM
To Moi – I think you deserve better. I know it’s not easy but leaving him is what I would do. When a man has spent years masturbating and orgasm-ing to young girls on the internet He programs his body to feel strong lust towards them. It’s a super brainwashing technique. Something as pleasurable as orgasms would be hard to deprogram, especially years of doing this to himself. Aging is normal for men and women and neither sex should be considered discards when we are going through a normal aging process. Just because we are not teen does not mean we are promiscuous. Look at the actress Chelsea on the TV show 2 and a half men. I read shes in her 50s. In my opinion not many teens are as sexy as her. Why do alot of people worship the youth from 16 to 25 and then consider ourselves unattractive discards. We gain valuable qualities later in life and become deeper people. We can also look beautiful as long as we take care of ourselves. We should be able to feel proud of our worth and looks for more than a mere 9 years of our life.
May 10, 2009 at 9:17 PM
Sue; he has now explained to me that he rarely goes on these sites and was looking for natural looking girls like myself. He’s a great guy and wants to marry me. Intellectually I can take him at his word, I know he has never liked the typical fake breasted kind of girl with tons of makeup,etc. And he said he was trying to find a site he once saw with natural beauties. I consider myself very pretty and talented and I want to believe I’m included with these natural women he looked ( by the way, he said he was bored last week sick in bed and that’s why he looked) but walking in NYC today I felt less than every young beauty I saw while with him. He’s a good guy and maybe he is being honest, but I feel what I feel now- more insecure than before, and I can’t turn that off with all my best “thinking” . I know I’ve always had trust issues anyway, but this has shaken me more. I’m beginning to think all men are the same, they either want a young sex toy or a mother- or both, that’s why they turn to this sh*t- supplemental I guess. True we don’t have alot of privacy or free time, and I want to tell myself it’s nothing, like he says, but I can’t turn my feeling off. Maybe some guys are cool and maybe he’s one of them, but maybe I have too many trust issues to be with anyone.
May 10, 2009 at 9:32 PM
Sue; by the way he told me I’m a natural beauty likethe girls on that website. I just don’t know what to think about anything anymore.
May 11, 2009 at 2:36 AM
Sometimes honesty is brutal. The world is cruel. Why run from reality under the garb of faked niceties? Thank you for trying to be nice, although you aren’t obliged to be. I’d rather appreciate brutal honesty from random people on the internet, instead of unhelpful niceties.
I know what I said might not have be palatable with your 30+ sensibilities, as aging and looks are something entirely beyond one’s conscious control. But think it this way, it is best to be real and come to terms with ourselves (flaws and all), rather than living in a worlds of denial or blaming others. If I couldn’t come to terms with my height and used false consolation or blame game to pacify my frustration, I’d still have been single, virgin and probably worse in a lot many ways…
Moi, don’t blame yourself, as the problem doesn’t appear to be entirely yours. A 49-year old man looking at teenage porn would be something of a concern, considering not only your insecurities, but the fact that you have a pre-teen daughter as well. That he is also a school teacher for grade-8 and younger students becomes a social concern as well. Perhaps both of you should see a marriage/relationship counsellor, to be able to sort things out. It *might* be true that he was just looking for ‘natural beauty’ when he came across these ‘teen porn’ but I wouldn’t bank too much on that.
May 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM
To the very SHORT MAN “Juan”
I am a model and In my 30’s! I get jobs (mainly bikini)because I am not the typical teen looking girl. Every day some man stops me to tell me I’m beautiful. I am not with my boyfriend out of desperation as there are better looking and wealthier men who are so available to me. I like his morals, character and personality. A complete opposite of yourself.
I felt bad for you as you are a VIRGIN at 25 years old !!!!!!
and you are VERY SHORT. Alot of people will think of you as a LOSER WITH WOMEN!!!!. I had empathy and I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have. It was real and not fake. However at this point I do not like your personality and I think you are a hateful bitter cruel man and that’s women do not want you, not because your so short. If you have sex with that 17 year old girl you like, I pray you get arrested for the evil cruel perv that you are. I hope you will stop addressing me in this blog as I have no interest in addressing your comments since you repulse me. The reason you never score with female is because you are hostile cynical nasty and us gals don’t like that.
May 11, 2009 at 10:23 AM
Please excuse my spelling, and sentence structure as I feel quite emotional and did not check it before submitting
May 11, 2009 at 12:36 PM
Right. (Explains the bitterness…)
Well then, I’m happy for you. It would be quite silly for you to compare me with your boyfriend, since we’ve had completely different sets of experiences with life.
I admit that I was a loser with women in the past, for things beyond my control and for listening to consolations like the one you tried. After I stopped the idealist dilly-dallying, I stopped being the loser that I was.
Actually a number of women who considered me a “close friend” did tell me that they’d have dated me if I were a little taller. That was way before I became a cynic. And the girls who showed interest in me did it because they thought I’m ‘cool’ (cool implies an element of personality, which would be made up of the same things you think women wouldn’t want about me). So your justification falls flat.
I’m afraid your prayers have to go without frutition. She is above the age of consent and hence, completely legal. I am no more of an evil cruel perv going for who I’m attracted to, than women who reject/overlook men by height preferences.
I will respond if I feel like it. If you don’t want to, feel free not to.
Falls flat on its face. I started to score with females AFTER I became a realist (or a ‘hostile cynical nasty’, as you’d call it). Apparently, a lot of girls like that. Maybe if I started being so years earlier, I’d have fives or more years of success than I do now.
No worries. I can understand your bitterness…
May 11, 2009 at 3:04 PM
JUAN THIS IS A QUOTE FROM YOU !!!!
“”"”"I find that a lot of teenage girls in the 15-19 age range show sexual interest in me, so I’ve decided to go for them instead.”"”"”"”"”"
Don’t say you didn’t write that in the blog ! because it’s up there in your above comments.
Juan (probably a fake name)you are very short AND HAVE THE MIND OF A PEDOPHILE
Unless you are able to seduce one of the 15-19 age girls you say you decided to go for ! you will not be the “40 year old virgin but the 90 year old virgin”because you will never get an adult women to have sex with you.
Your personality is even a bigger defect than your stumped height.
I hope the 15-19 girls you say you will go for!!! stay away from you or eventually you will be arrested you sad, short, perverted little man because mature women don’t want you ugly little penis
Go back to your barnyard. I am done answering you
May 12, 2009 at 12:20 AM
I am short, but not a paedophile. I am not sexually attracted to children. In any case, I started going for teenagers because they show sexual/dating interest in me, as opposed women my age see me either as a ‘good friend’ or a ‘little brother’.
Fortunately for me, I am no longer a virgin, so your wish would never come to a pass. In any case, I couldn’t have been a 40 or 90-year old virgin in any case, since chances of my living till the age of 40 are quite slim. I don’t think my liver is going to support me that long of a lifespan.
I am at a point in life where I couldn’t care less. If I get adult women, well good. If not, I wouldn’t waste away the remaining part of my life frittering over it. Its all a win-win for me, if I were to die tomorrow, I’d have no regrets over it. If not, I wouldn’t have to live a decade longer in frustration.
People I know seem to think my personality is perfect. Thats all that matters to me.
Well, they didn’t because they aren’t as judgemental, short-fused and bitter as you seem to be.
By the way, at least one thing you got right. Juan isn’t my real name, for reasons of privacy. I’d have given you gold medals for figuring it out, if it were not already that obvious (this being internet and all).
May 12, 2009 at 2:02 AM
I have been noticing an interesting sort of yin-yang element of the posts between Sue and Juan.
These are just my interpretations and therefore are neither true or false but are just my observation of posts between you.
At first, it seemed to me that Sue came across as friendly and helpful and Juan came across to me as jaded and cynical.
Then suddenly the tables completely turned and Juan seemed much more tolerant and compassionate and Sue seemed completely intolerant and not at all compassionate.
It seems as if you each are exact opposite but mirror images of each other. One is compassionate on the inside but cynical on the outside, the other compassionate on the outside but bitter and angry on the inside.
Appearances really can be deceiving!
May 13, 2009 at 11:08 AM
Juan oh I mean kysha430 (new name eh?)
I tried to be nice and got nothing but verbal abuse. I have a soft spot for people. I even let this cruel comments go until he wouldn’t stop addressing me with insults. I am not a masochist sorry to disappoint you
May 13, 2009 at 11:42 AM
May 13, 2009 at 11:51 AM
My apologies if my arguments hurt you in any way. I was just trying to justify my position, that’s all. I have no personal vendetta against you to be insulting you.
May 19, 2009 at 5:54 AM
wont a marry you im looking for marege
May 19, 2009 at 5:56 AM
i wonted a love on my life yong girl
June 3, 2009 at 7:45 AM
I came home early from work yesterday, my husband did not know I was in the house. I opened our bedroom door (that was locked) and found my husband with his laptop in our bed looking at teenage girls dancing half naked and some pics they were masterbating. I have been through this 2 times before in our almost 12 yr marriage. Each time he has been so sorry and ashamed and feels genuinely sorry and regretful. This time I took a few shots at him with my fist and open hand…I almost couldn’t stop. I was shaking he was bleeding from his nose and scratched up pretty badly. I really don’t know if we will recovery from this one, he wants to go to a marriage councelor and church. He feels he has a problem, he had made it 9 months since the last time, and thinks that our finances and the fact that our oldest daughter recently went to jail has made things very stressful. I’m crying as I write this I’m just so sad we have gotten so close this year, we tookour first real without the kids vacation and I really thought all this was behinds us. He admitted that he looks maybe twice a week and does this when i am not there and he says he’s on for maybe 10 min sometimes 30. I guess my real concern here is that i am not enough for him and at 32 he is to old to look at these girls. I feel i could handle it somewhat better if they were not teenagers. When I say teenagers the site states their ages. Oldest being 19. Please let me know what the concensus is out there. Thank you
June 4, 2009 at 2:08 PM
Mr Tibbs, do yourself and your girlfriend a huge favor. Quit looking at porn. This tears your girlfriend apart, has made her feel totally undesirable BECAUSE you are looking at other women and masturbating over them. Seriously!!!! How do you think she’s going to feel? How would you feel if you walked in on her and saw her dripping over an image of gorgeous naked man on the computer???? Why do men not have a clue as to why porn can kill a relationship?
June 4, 2009 at 2:12 PM
Anna, I feel for you. I’ve been through the same thing recently with my husband of 20 years. I caught him for the first time about 9 months ago and since then he claims he’s been clean but the shock, the hurt, the humiliation I felt sent me into a rage. I’m still not over it and can’t get the images of what he was watching…TEENAGERS!!! He’s 50! If I could, I would leave, but I’m jobless, no where to go but if I had someplace, that would be it.
June 4, 2009 at 2:22 PM
Anna, it also seems that teen porn is out there full force these days. 30 years ago, they had Playboy and Penthouse, where the girls were at least 20 or over and looked mature enough but the teens in porn these days look like children and it’s scares the heck out of me that our husbands are watching this garbage. Most of the teens I saw in his “collection” were not even pretty, they only had young bodies. Yes, it makes us wives feel inadequate, but hey it made me feel inadequate when my boyfriend 30 years ago looked at porn and I was only 20 then. It’s just not something most women feel good about. My husband claims he’s not addicted and has started therapy with me and is going to church but I wonder if that’s not all just a smokescreen to earn my forgiveness. No evidence yet of a set back on his part but I still cannot get over it. This was only the first time I caught mine with porn but apparently he had hidden it well for at least six years from me. I would suggest you and your husband go to counseling and talk to a Pastor since you mentioned church. If your husband is addicted and admits he may have a problem that’s step one. Stay and try to get healing for him and yourself. His behavior is not normal. Husbands are to keep themselves for their wives, not for images of other women (or girls) in porn.
June 4, 2009 at 4:26 PM
Hi Anna,
I have had this issue come up for me in the past. I think there are a few men out there who do not look at porn but there are probably no men out there who do not masterbate. A man’s imagination is filled with thousands more images than even the internet can hold, from probably all the way back to the stroller. Should we try to censor that too?
I think there are men out there who would be willing to give up looking at the internet because it is upsetting to a partner but I think the majority of men will just try better ways to hide it.
Perhaps you didn’t know you were choosing a man that looks at internet porn and had you known, you probably would have chosen a man that does not.
We are all entitled free-will and we all get to choose what sort of person we want to be with. If you try to control him, he will continue to resist that attempt to be controlled, even secretly. And this will compound the problem even further and push him away from you even more.
Perhaps your partner would be willing to try therapy. If not, I would just ignore it and have sex with him as often as possible.
June 5, 2009 at 11:59 AM
Thank you all for your responses. I feel better knowing that I am not the only women this has happened too, but still feel confused on how this has become such a big problem for our men? My husband is smart handsome and a wonderful father and provider. It just seems his profile doesn’t fit that wierdo image that I have always had of men that are all into porn and masterbating all the time. It is beyond me what has happened to him. Someone said get counceling or maybe church and that is what he has proposed for us as well. Im all for that but at the same time I feel its me and he is more attracted to these girls and just can’t get rid of me do to the fact we have an 11 yr old and he doesn’t want to leave him. Someone else suggested maybe ignore it and just have lots of sexwith him as often as possible. Well to that I can say I love having sex with my husband and offer it pretty much all the time. Evidently from what he says sex can be to much work and when he is tierd and I am at work it is easier to look at porn and masterbate than to wait for me and have sex. I must really suck at sex because he knows I would strip down the minute I get home and jump his bones. So you tell me? The sad thing is I seem to be what most men want and I know that sounds very vein but the truth is I have a good personality and have maintain very well and I’m always being told I look at least 10 years younger than my age. I guess if I was 17 again he would be wanting me all the time tired or not. Agree?
June 5, 2009 at 11:14 PM
I’m not sure this is directly relevant, but recently my father’s been looking at teenage pornography (he has no idea about Google’s search history, sadly). This has made me a little insecure and confused, because some of those girls (assuming they’re all legal) are just 3 or 4 years older than I am. Am I right to be upset about this, or should I accept it as normal? I don’t really feel threatened or anything like that, just… kind of let down in a weird way. Not sure how to explain it. Help?
June 6, 2009 at 12:41 AM
This is only my opinion and therefore to be taken with a grain of salt but I think frequent masturbation is caused by fear.
Anxiety and the fear of intimacy can lead to a desire for easy, quick and pleasurable release. There is almost no work involved whatsoever, and no one else but oneself to please. The more titilating the picture, the more powerful, pleasurable and quick the release.
It is a completely selfish act and, I believe, does not reflect on the quality or attractiveness of the partner. It’s seems to be about wanting a purely pleasurable release without having to do the work that true intimacy requires and not having to think about pleasing anyone else.
I think it is a mistake to take it personally. It may be a reflection of a lack of willingness on his part to work on developing deeper intimacy and instead taking the easy way out in order to satisfy a basic urge and to relieve anxiety.
Therapy can help to remove the blocks to true intimacy. Sex alone is not a substitute for intimacy and frequent masturbation may just be a way to avoid doing the work of finding a way to break through the fear and resistance patterns that get in the way of establishing the deeper sense of connectivity and relatedness which will ultimately help to relieve the anxiety.
Frequent masturbation is only a temporary fix, and like any addiction, is just a vicious cycle that never addresses or heals the real underlying problems.
June 8, 2009 at 2:27 PM
Anna, I don’t agree with your last statement, that if you were 17 again he would be wanting you all the time. I think porn is just pure (forbidden) excitement and it releases chemicals in the brain just like a drug. Even if you were the most beautiful woman in the world, if your husband is drawn to porn he is going to do it. It has nothing to do with you or the way you look. I truly believe there is still a taboo about porn even though these days it’s everywhere. There is still the feeling (something in everyone’s conscience)that it’s supposed to be forbidden but the forbidden is always more exciting and that makes it more enticing. You’re not forbidden to him, you are his wife, but other women are forbidden and he knows it, (marital vows require him to be for you and you alone sexually),thus making it more exciting for him to be sexually stimulated by other women. Now with quick internet access to porn, there are all sorts of sexual perversions out there that men (or women) can get at their fingertips very easily. It seems to me that teen porn offers even more forbidden excitement because they are so young without actually crossing that pedophilic line.
If a man cannot stop viewing porn at the request of his partner because it is causing relationship difficulties, then he is addicted and needs help. He is asking for help you said, so I would urge you to seek it with him, and also for your healing.
June 9, 2009 at 9:20 AM
To Skittles, is your father married? Maybe you should let your mother know if so. If you’re around the same age as the girls he’s looking at, I’d be concerned if I were you. Older men looking at teen porn is not normal.
June 9, 2009 at 1:51 PM
If a man cannot stop viewing porn at the request of his partner because it is causing relationship difficulties, then he is addicted and needs help. He is asking for help you said, so I would urge you to seek it with him, and also for your healing.
Forgive me for not reading the entire thread here, but I noticed this while scanning up from the end.
I want to point out the assumption that someone should cease all sexual activity that their partner finds objectionable. It can be a heavy thing to ask your partner that all of their sexual expression be confined to their you (and a terrible burden to be someone’s sole sexual outlet). I am not advocating open marriages or something similar.
I can personally testify that marriages are threatened more by feeling ashamed of our sexual desires than by the mere act of viewing pornography. At one time I thought that I was addicted to pornography.
I have to make this long story a short one, so… Once I accepted my sexual desires for what they are and realized that I could be a good (no, great!) husband and father, not in spite of who I am sexually, but because of it, once I accepted that, the addiction melted away.
I still view pornography on occasion, but I am no longer ashamed. I love my wife. I love my daughters. I wear myself out trying to be my best for their sake. I often get compliments about how good I am with my daughters. I wouldn’t toot my own horn except to battle the assumption that a man with natural, healthy sexual desires is a threat to his marriage and family. Pornography is no real threat to them.
The real enemy is shame. Sending messages of shame is a perfect recipe for turning healthy sexual desire into an addiction.
June 10, 2009 at 4:55 AM
To Johnathan…you excepted your sexuaul desires for what they are? And this makes you a better father and husband? Please explain.
June 10, 2009 at 10:25 AM
Anna,
(Settle in because I have more time today so this will be much longer. I hope you don’t regret your question.)
A perfect example comes from some advice I received from my mother before I married my wife. We followed her advice so that now, whenever one of us realizes that we are feeling attracted to someone else, we share that fact with each other. It seems that somehow we as a culture have this idea of love that says that once we are married, if our love is true, our hearts will never stray. This falsehood raises the bar impossibly high for us mortals who don’t live in a fairy tale.
The first time I shared such an attraction with my wife wasn’t easy: I felt increasingly attracted to her sister. The attraction stewed in my mind, and I fretted over whether I should tell her. I finally decided to trust her and shared my secret attraction. All praise to her, she accepted my attraction for what it was and returned my trust.
My mother had promised that if we practiced this openness, that the attraction would lose its steam. And it did. I still feel attracted to my wife’s sister, but it lacks the power it had when it was a secret attraction. My wife even kids me a little about it once in a while. Nothing like laughter to chase away demons.
After years of putting my mother’s advice to the test, my wife feels free to share the excitement she felt when that cute bagger at the grocery store helped her out to the car and tried to flirt with her, and I complain to her about the days when a woman that I work closely with—who moonlights, I kid you not, as a bikini model—wears clothing designed to get my heterosexual male motors revving. (I confess that my complaints are half-hearted.) This sharing has inoculated us against these random attractions, and our intimacy grows each time we trust each other this way.
So now my wife knows about my sexuality and accepts it. She knows that I find teenage girls’ bodies sexually attractive (if not their still-maturing personalities). She knows that I indulge in erotic materials on occasion. This causes no more trouble in our marriage—now that we’ve learned to trust each other—than if she read romance novels once in a while, or if I ate chocolate-chip mint ice cream in moderation.
All that psychic energy that I used to spend worrying about getting caught with my hand in the cookie jar has been freed up to pursue more important goals, like being a loving husband and father. When I was ashamed and afraid, my sexuality dominated my life. When I tried to hide from my sexuality, to change it, I spent years in frustration, self-hatred, and shame. I am grateful that I decided to try a new strategy, one of acceptance and temperance. Now I have the emotional space to grow up a bit more. (It’s about time!)
To those women who worry that men fantasize about teenagers, I say relax. We trust each other not to indulge our fantasies every day. For example, we trust each other with our lives when we drive. We trust that we won’t indulge our fantasy to run each other off the road in a fit of anger when one of us drives poorly, even though the thought of it can be very satisfying to entertain. Part of being an adult is learning to temper our fantasies with longer-term thinking. Fantasy rarely becomes reality. We realize that most such fantasies won’t lead us to where we truly want to go.
I may fantasize once in a while about that physically mature sixteen-year-old I see in church or about my sister-in-law, but there is very little chance that I will ever follow up on those fantasies. They’re fun thoughts only if I ignore all the negative consequences to my wife, my family, the woman involved, etc. When it comes down to it, I just like thinking about it. I’m grown up enough to know that only bad things would come of acting on those thoughts. (Have you seen American Beauty? The protagonist’s relationship to the cheerleader is a good illustration of this point.)
Anyway, I’m a better husband and father because I and my wife are aware of who I am sexually. We communicate about it. We trust my judgment, and that trust and acceptance (and humor!) chases away the fear and shame. That makes all the difference between the sexually addicted person I once was and the devoted husband and father I am now.
June 11, 2009 at 12:49 PM
To Johnathan, all I can say to your well meant insight is thank you but no thank you. What works at your house doesn’t work at mine. I will say that your mothers adivce is quite clever and believe that to be good sound advice. But for the rest of it what I’m hearing is how you have made your wife with her little harmless “the bagger guy was cute and ” the latest romance novel she read was a bit steamy” some how puts her on your playing field. I beg the difference. You sir still have some issues if you are checking out 16 yr old teen girls at the local church. And to compare it to fantasizing about running a bad driver off the road? Come on! Get over yourself, all I here is that you are happy as a Lark that your wife is aware of who YOU are sexually all sounds a bit narcissistic to me. And yes humor can be good for chasing away fear and shame and also old guys that get a woody for 16 yr old girls!
June 11, 2009 at 12:57 PM
To Jonathan Blake:
If I say to my husband, boy I have this desire to hit you over the head daily, maybe twice a week and he says, “Boy that hurts honey”.
“But dear, I say, if you let me do this maybe once a month, the desire to do that so much will diminish.” Husband says, but it’s still going to hurt when you do it.” Does that mean I should do it once a month and still hurt him, diminishing my desire to do it more often? No, if something I’m doing hurts my husband I have the responsibility to not do it at all.
As for your wife tolerating your fantasies of her sister or the 16 year old “in your church” (WOW) then, your wife is pretty much out of touch with her true feelings. I would say it’s no wonder she finds flirtatious encounters with check out boys alluring. Perhaps you have diminished her feelings of desirability by desiring other women and she seeks verification of her sexual attractiveness elsewhere.
I can tell you that before the discovery of my husband’s porn use, I could have cared less about men looking at me, and they do quite often. But now, I crave that attention, verifying my desirability, and sexual attractiveness because my husband took that away from me. With some of us women, our partners porn use makes us feel undesirable, as if we are not good enough. If that is what it makes us feel and a man is sensitive enough about it he will try to cease that activity.
I just have to politely disagree with your morals on this one. I agree the more someone tells you not to do something, the more you may want to do it. It’s called rebellion and it’s in human nature. The process to maturity is to grow out of rebellion by self control which includes rebellious actions as well as rebellious thoughts.
June 11, 2009 at 3:30 PM
I find myself in substantial agreement with Jonathan on this one. I don’t think a woman has a right to interfere with her husbands use of porn anymore than a man has a right to interfere with his wife’s use of romance novels. It’s not that I so much like porn and romance novels, it’s that I like human freedom.
June 11, 2009 at 4:22 PM
Anna,
That many older men find young women sexually attractive is a fact. The question is whether or not this is pathological or just part of human nature. That so many (seemingly?) healthy men experience this attraction (cf. the term “jail bait”) says to me that the attraction is not out of the ordinary.
I realize that many of us (especially those who have been victimized in the past) are frightened of the thought that men (and women) harbor sexual feelings for adolescents. What I’m saying, for some, must sound like I want to leave adolescents unprotected from sexual predation, like I want license to practice my sexuality with impunity.
However, I support protecting the weak from the sexual predations of the strong. I, like so many others, try my best to protect them from my own sexual attraction to them. The vast majority of these men and women would never consider victimizing the young people for whom they feel these attractions. I personally want them to be blissfully ignorant of any untoward feelings that I have. Let them enjoy their youth without my interference.
But we can’t wish away human sexuality. It is what it is, and it dictates that many adults will be attracted, at some level, to young men and women, no matter how frightening or distasteful we think that is.
What I hope is that we can all look at our response to sexuality—our own and that of others—and feel acceptance for the things we can’t control. I have no control over what sexual feelings I have. Trying to deny that those feelings exist or to push them away—to keep them closeted—simply makes it harder to manage them, at least from my own experience. Sooner or later, they’re going to find their way out of the closet, probably at a time and place that we’ll all truly regret.
I have much more control over my actions and attitudes, especially when I am fully conscious of my feelings and don’t try to keep them in the closet.
BTW, if pornography can be dangerous to a marriage (and it can) then romance novels can be as well. Pornography can encourage men to have unrealistic expectations about the anatomy and submissiveness of women and the lack of consequences to sex. Romance novels and movies can encourage women to have unrealistic expectations about how men treat them and about happily ever after. Both sets of unrealistic expectations may cause us to be dissatisfied with our flesh and blood partners. Neither is a graver threat to marriage as far as I can tell.
But we’re adults who can tell the difference between fantasy and reality. While moderation is called for, utter abstinence from fantasy is unnecessary.
Denise,
Thank you for the suggestion about my wife seeking verification. I’ll have to talk with her about that and make sure that she knows that I find her attractive. I think she knows, but it never hurts to lay it on a little thicker.
Let me suggest a modification to your hammer example. Let’s say an bulimic woman came to her partner and said “My diet has been unhealthy. From now on, I plan to eat three meals a day.” Her partner responds, “I hate it when you eat so much. You’ve been gaining weight, and I’m finding you less attractive.” Does the woman have a responsibility to give in to her partner’s demands so that she won’t hurt her partner’s feelings? Or should she try to improve her health while communicating with her partner about his feelings? In this example, both partners have unhealthy attitudes that need to be worked on.
Going back to romance novels and movies, if my wife’s life was absorbed in them, would it be good for me to ask my wife to forgo all chick flicks and romance novels because I feel threatened by the leading men? Should she accept a life without The Notebook and Pride and Prejudice? Or should I work on my insecurity while she learns to moderate her time spent with Noah and Mr. Darcy?
I realize that feelings can be raw on this issue, so please let me humbly suggest that if a woman finds her husband secretly viewing pornography, and she then assumes that her husband is depraved for being attracted to young women, that both need to make some changes. If both partners assume that his attraction to young women is the root of the problem, they will spend years—maybe even a lifetime—trying to fix something that isn’t broken.
Been there. Done that. Hope to hell that others can be spared that pain and frustration.
More than anything, I hope that people who find themselves in this situation can overcome their fear and shame about their true feelings and the feelings of their partners. I hope their partners will encourage them —every part of them—out into the daylight of love and acceptance. We all deserve as much.
June 11, 2009 at 4:41 PM
In my opinion, young people should be protected until they are the age of consent. Once they are of legal age, they have the right and freedom to choose their partners just like anyone else.
It’s only been a couple hundred years or so since 13 and 14 year olds regularly married and had children, sometimes with older partners and did not always have a choice in this matter.
Genetically, men are programmed to mate with the best chance for healthy off-spring. This desire is a genetic urge but people are free to make their own choices as long as they do not infringe upon a minor (which is the law) or someone else’s freedom.
Ladies, if you do not want to be with a man who fantasizes about youth, look for one of the few who does not, that is your choice, good luck.
June 11, 2009 at 7:00 PM
Paul said: “I find myself in substantial agreement with Jonathan on this one. I don’t think a woman has a right to interfere with her husbands use of porn anymore than a man has a right to interfere with his wife’s use of romance novels. It’s not that I so much like porn and romance novels, it’s that I like human freedom.”
Well Paul, what if a woman (before she was married to her husband) told him how porn made her feel and that she had been traumatized by it and he promised to never emotionally abuse her in that manner, and then years later he does exactly that to a large degree? It was my choice to marry a man who did not want to view porn, *having been married twice before to porn addicts in which porn led to more explicit sexual deviant behavior), yet the very thing I was promised by my current husband was violated. Was it not within my human freedom to marry a porn free man? Me thinks my freedom of choice rights were violated.
June 11, 2009 at 7:06 PM
Let me ask you a question Jonathan Blake, let’s say a grandfather is having sexual feelings for his granddaughter. Should be be able to express his sexual desires to someone, not acting on them of course, but is this morally proper? Where do you personally draw the line? Obviiously you being attracted underage girls is no problem for you and you feel no shame for that, feeling perfectly fine to express your sexual *freedom* for jail bait. You don’t even feel shame for being sexually attracted to a relative, your wife’s sister which is another moral taboo. Just where do you draw your moral line and where does your moral code come from?
June 11, 2009 at 10:30 PM
Denise,
Regarding your experiences with your husband and ex-husbands, I’m sorry that you’ve been hurt. Are you and they part of a group that says that pornography is a sin and that pornography always leads to worse transgressions? I ask because that is my own background, and the story sounds very familiar. I’ve heard of a lot of wives feeling deeply threatened when they discover their husband’s use of pornography. (Or they say they would leave their husbands if they ever discovered that they viewed pornography.) They have been taught to believe that pornography use means that the marriage will be over unless it is stopped. That would make me feel threatened, too.
This becomes especially troubling for the couple when the husband finds that he can’t stop feeling the desire to view pornography. The husband feels like a failure, like he should be able to overcome his desires, and the wife feels her marriage slipping away outside of her control.
We can’t make a promise that we will never change as a person. We also can’t promise that we won’t be human beings. I naively made many promises to my wife early in our marriage with the assumption that I would stay basically the same. I’ve grown and changed and am no longer the same person who made those promises. I’ve had to break them. She’s changed, too. The most that we can promise each other is that we intend to stick together for the rest of our lives, whatever change may come.
Regarding the grandfather example, I would hope that he would express those feelings to someone (obviously not his granddaughter) so that they wouldn’t fester and grow malignant. In this case, it would probably be preferable for him to speak with a mental health professional so that they could make sure his feelings didn’t get out of hand.
Also, I think this is a case where fantasy is too dangerous. It would be too easy for things to get out of hand. So I concede that there is a line that we shouldn’t cross. However, feeling afraid or guilty won’t help us keep from crossing the line. I think the healthiest attitude to take is one of calm acceptance that our sexuality will be unruly, and confidence that we as adults can keep our actions within healthy bounds, as long as we don’t hide from the truth.
If I thought it would be easy for me to act on a fantasy that would hurt me and my loved ones, I wouldn’t indulge that fantasy. But I would openly acknowledge the desire. Secret desires are dangerous.
My morality—my motivation for trying to be compassionate, honest, and just—comes from who I am as a human being. I want to see everyone lead healthy, satisfying lives. That motivates me to act morally. There are other parts of me that work against my better nature. I accept them as a true reflect of who I am while trying to nourish my better nature.
June 11, 2009 at 10:49 PM
Just a clarification about my sense of morality. I don’t subscribe to the idea that thoughts and desires by themselves can be immoral. It’s only through our actions that we can hurt ourselves and others.
June 12, 2009 at 6:54 AM
You know a week ago when I found my husband in our room looking at online porn not only did I have a mental meltdown but my husband did too. He begged me for help. He cried unconsolably calling himself an idiot and loser. He begged me not to leave, when I reminded him of how far I thought we had come (since the last time this had happenend) he admitted that he had started back sometime in March. I desperately searched my memeory for a clue, “when would he have been doing this”? “do I not make myself available to him day and night”? But more than anything my questions always goes back to two things…What happened to the man that said he would never hurt me with this again? And “how do you confess to love someone and all the while you are looking for naked girls to get you aroused and then masterbate to thier images? And then when you are all done you get cleaned up, make sure the history is cleared on the computer, walk out of the bedroom, resume your daily functions, wait for your wife to come home and when she does you act the same way you did before she left. “whats for dinner babe? Did you get a redbox movie? Fast foward to later after dinner and movie Wife snuggles to husband reaching down for some intimate time and guess what “babe I’m tired. Lets wait till tomorrow night. Wife wants to know why? Shes thought about tonight all day even calling and suggesting it to her husband. Then wife feels guilty, he did have a hard day, remembering things he had said about his day at work. So OK tomorrow then. Husband promises it will be good tomorrow night, will have more energy… kisses wife, turns and starts snoring in 2 min. The point is I ONLY WANT MY HUSBAND and the thought that he wants others is a painful and has made me rethink everything I thought this man stood for. The person that I go to for comfort and understanding is a fraud. Thats hardest thing about all this is knowing hes not the man I thought he was.
June 12, 2009 at 9:54 AM
Anna, that sounds so familiar. That was my wife and I a few years ago. We went through similar pain. We believed that loving each other and having a strong marriage meant that I would never desire anyone else. That’s the message we get from all the love stories (and in our case, from our church), and we wanted our marriage to live up to that ideal.
Then my human frailties asserted themselves. No matter how much I tried, no matter how much I loved my wife, I couldn’t stop feeling attracted to other women. I truly loved her and I felt attracted to other women. I felt like such a failure because I couldn’t make my feelings go away. I felt ashamed that I couldn’t keep from sinning again and again no matter how desperately I prayed for deliverance.
She felt like I must not truly love her. She felt like I wasn’t attracted to her, like she didn’t measure up. She felt like our marriage must be ending.
So, to protect our marriage, to keep from hurting her, to avoid her seeing how ashamed I felt, because I loved her and didn’t want to disappoint her, I hid my activities from her because that’s the only thing I seemed capable of controlling.
Healing only began to happen when we started to rethink our assumptions about what love should look like. Some people may truly want only their spouse. Most of us, however, have to deal with stray feelings of desire for someone other than our spouse. My wife and I slowly let go of our assumption that attractions to other people were a sign of moral weakness, a sin, a sign that I didn’t love her. As we accepted the reality and let go of the fairy tale, our trust in each other deepened because I no longer felt it necessary to lie to her. We saw that attractions to other people weren’t strong enough to break our marriage. I feel more deeply loved now because I’ve seen her commitment to me through her willingness to reconsider who she wanted me to be, and to let go of the promises that I had naively made to her, the ones I had no power to keep.
Our marriage has been tested and is stronger than ever, so I can happily report that there is light at the end of the tunnel.
(Sorry for writing so much. Obviously, I feel passionately about this.)
June 12, 2009 at 10:32 AM
Anna, I was thinking about you and your story about an hour ago. The thought came to my mind that even though this is the third time you caught your husband, I bet this time was not the first time he relapsed and that he had been looking at it more than just the three times. Then I read this last post from you.
I understand exactly how you feel. Your how could he do this, how could he act so “normal”, doing what he’s doing. In other words, how does he hide his guilt so well. I felt the same thing to. For six years I saw no indication besides sexual disinterest and tiredness. His personality didn’t change, he didn’t act guilty, he functioned daily as a normal, fun loving, pure and honest man with moral integrity. It’s like discovering you’re married to a Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde personality. After my discovery last September I was convinced that this was not the man I married, and wondered if he ever existed. I feel so differently toward him now I can’t reconcile the way I thought he was to the way he actually turned out to be. I too feel I’ve been married to a fraud.
Anna, reading some of the recent responses to your very understandably disturbed feelings about what’s taking place in your marriage, the last place for you to seek advice is from a blog such as this where there are men who see nothing wrong with what your husband is doing and promote moral depravity as some here have. You need to find a group of like-minded (women) who have been hurt as you have by your husband’s porn use and to seek counsel from them. There is healing but only if your husband is willing to heal himself. I would be more than happy to email with you if you need to find a place that can help you. My heart breaks for you because I KNOW exactly what you’re going through. I will give it a couple of days and see if you’d like to coorespond, if not I am wiping this blog from my bookmarks as I see very little comfort being given here for women who have been scorned by porn.
June 12, 2009 at 11:49 AM
Denise, your latest post makes me so sad. I can see that you’re very hurt that your husband isn’t the white knight in shining armor you imagined him to be. I’m willing to bet he still loves you. I guess I hope other people can benefit from my experiences, but maybe that’s a vain hope. Maybe they have to find their own way.
Please, please, investigate Out of the Shadows and Don’t Call it Love. Both books helped me to understand my own addiction, and my wife’s budding co-dependence. And don’t worry: these books are compatible with your own sense of morality. Please.
I wish you and your husband the best.
June 12, 2009 at 11:52 PM
Jonathan,
I think you and your wife have a deeply loving relationship which is not based on attachment to an impossible ideal but is based on fearless love and acceptance of what is real between you.
Attachment and rejection are both fear-based and contribute to addiction. Openness, receptivity and acceptance are expressions of unconditional love.
Your wife made the brave decision to love the man that is sitting in front of her and not the man she wishes you were. By accepting you unconditionally, she helped you to break the cycle of addiction.
She stepped up to be accountable for her half of the problem because she allowed you to stop lying to her by not insisting that you pretend to be someone you are not. By extending her faith and trust in you, even when there was “evidence” to the contrary she allowed you to find the person inside you who is worthy of that trust.
Thank you for sharing. Your example is inspiring.
June 13, 2009 at 5:13 AM
To Denise, thank you for listening and reaching out. After reading my blog again I can see I am not getting any better and possible will never be able to look at my husband in the same way either. You know the first time this happenend I was absolutely devavstated. I remember thinking over and over that man I cherish and adore never really exsisted. But I began feeling that somehow it was my fault, he told me we weren’t happy and he had felt this way for sometime. What a shocker to be told when you think all is right in the world that you are not happy after all. So I convenced myself that we had not been happy maybe are marriage had been on auto pilot and maybe he is right I had let him down too. So I (I) bought some marriage help books and tried to get my husband involved in reading with me. He never read the book. I on the other hand did. And I began to heal, very slowly and saw the errors of my ways and began to change. My husband did as well (seemingly) we went on a vacation to the mountains without kids and it was very nice. We talked alot and did fun stuff and at the end I felt right as rain. And over the course of this year we have had other good times and not so good times but it seemed we were on a different kind of awareness than we were before, stronger if you will. Now flash foward to the present and here I am writting in this blog that I shouldn’t ever have to look at again, but here I am looking for some thread of understanding and advice. The bottom line here my husband betrayed me, and even though I am seemingly handleling it better this time I feel I am now forever changed because of it. In order for me to stay in this relationship I have to decide if I can endure. “Endure” not to get confused with understanding because that will never come, and not change because I’m not this time, but to actually endure facts about him that I now know. I guess only time will tell. Thank you so much Denise for coming out and sharing your own story with me as I know it is not easy we just want it to be a bad dream don’t we. God how I wish it was a dream and any minute I will wake up and see my husband laying there beside me so happy then to know all this was just a bad dream.
June 13, 2009 at 9:02 AM
kysha430,
Thank you for understanding and for helping me to remember how awesome my wife is! I’ll have to tell her so.
Anna,
I regret if I haven’t been helpful to you. But it sounds like you can see deeper problems in your marriage, and I hope you can find help with those. Just a thought: the secret pornography viewing and the deceit are only a symptom rather than the root of the problems. If so, then focusing on curing the symptom leaves the real problems in the partners’ attitudes undealt with. That’s the mistake—a completely natural one—that I’ve seen a lot of wives make.
All the best.
June 24, 2009 at 4:10 PM
If a room full of women, just on looks, picked 25% the women, who looked most likely to reproduce and raise children to maturity, they would probably pick the same segment of themselves as an equal number of men.